Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Info on Hellroaring Battery Isolators

isolator battery

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Sharx

Sharx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts
  • LocationLos Gatos, CA

Posted 22 August 2017 - 03:28 AM

As I have been considering replacing my Sure Power 1314a Battery Isolator, I recently sent a request for more information on a company (located in Montana) called Hellroaring Technologies that has made battery isolators for a long time and got a response back that I thought I would share.  I of course am not connected to this company in any way or offer this info for any other reason than to simply report it and provide another option to consider.

 

Per my question regarding the differences of their models vs. the Sure Power one (installed in my '15 Fleet mounted on my V6 Tacoma), Mike Hines replied:

 

1.) The Sure Power device is a mechanical solenoid based system.  So, it comes with the drawbacks of mechanical contacts arcing and wearing over time.  We have found the mechanical contacts can exhibit wide variations of contact resistance when there is a low initial across the contacts such as occurs when a battery voltage is on both sides.  It is possible that the contacts can develop a high resistance, precluding proper charging.  Yet that same relay could be removed, battery voltage applied to one side, and a load on the other side (i.e. 12V across the contacts initially), and the contact resistance appears normal and good.  Our BIC's are all solid state power switching that has a consistently low ON resistance time after time regardless of how the voltage differential is between the two sides.  So, charging is more consistent.

 

2.) The mechanical solenoid based devices consume significant power when ON, your Sure Power device at 0.75A.  That is over 9 Watts when ON.  Since its turn OFF voltage is 12.7V, that power consumption will draw down both batteries until that level is reached.  So, when it is time to rest, the batteries never get the opportunity to rest at their natural Rest voltage.  Some new batteries can naturally rest as high as 12.9 to 13,1Vdc when full.  Our BIC's consume only 0.01A when ON (to illuminate the bulit in LED) and the switch off threshold is set for 13.2Vdc.  So, it will isolate much sooner when not charging.  This allows the batteries to rest at their more natural full charge rest voltage.

 

3.) Our BIC's are fully encapsulated in epoxy, so they are waterproof.  The only electrical item exposed are the terminals.

 

The above are some of the main differences (to the Sure Power unit).  For our Auxiliary battery setup, best performance, i.e. charge rates, are achieved by mounting the BIC in the truck under the hood and wiring the truck charge line with (good) 8 AWG wire.  It can be mounted in the camper, but variations in truck wiring size and the typical length to the camper can result in a reduction of charge rate by 50% due to cycling on/off while the camper load causes voltage loss across the input wiring to go below 13.2 Vdc.  Because it is solid state power switching, the BIC can do this silently.  The mechanical solenoid based systems would just chatter and not be effective.  This probably one reason most of those systems have such a low switch off threshold.  Even though ours does better, we recommend for best performance, it can be mounted closer to the charge source, i.e. under the truck hood.  This typically avoids a cycling situation.

 

For more information and setup diagrams visit their site:

 

http://www.hellroaring.com

 

 


  • 0

#2 rando

rando

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,638 posts
  • LocationColorado

Posted 22 August 2017 - 01:40 PM

I looked into the Hellroaring isolators before.   And while they appear to be a nice product, for most folks the Blue Seas ACR is likely to be a better bet.

 

The obvious difference is cost (the ACR cost 1/2 what the Hell Roaring costs).   But the second issue is the on resistance.   The solid state switches typically have an on resistance around 0.01 Ohms.   This doesn't sound like much, but if you are drawing 30A (or more) this will drop you charging voltage by 0.3V.  This will slow down your charging and make it much harder to get that last 20% of charge into your battery from your alternator.  There are some applications where the low power consumption and reliability of solid state switches is important, but this is not really one of those applications.  The relay is only on when your truck is running, so the extra 0.2A the ACR draws is in the noise.   Secondly the ACR is only switching when your truck is started - a couple times a day - which is really low duty cycle for most relays.   They should last decades at this rate. 

 

I also don't think the HellRoaring isolators are dual sensing.  This means that if you have solar (or are running on shore power) the isolator won't sense this and charge the truck battery as well as the camper battery.   For camper that can sit for sometime between trips, this is a big drawback. 


  • 0

2016 Fleet Flatbed

2016 Toyota Tacoma


#3 AK Nomad

AK Nomad

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • LocationAlaska

Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:37 PM

I used the hellroaring unit when I installed a used snowplow on pickup - separating the plow battery from the starting battery, but allowing charge to both and combining both if needing a jump start.  I installed it many years ago and it worked great; I since retired the truck but still have the isolator.  Great company to deal with and I enjoyed learning from that project.


  • 0

#4 camelracer

camelracer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 960 posts
  • LocationGoleta, Ca

Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:32 AM

 

I also don't think the HellRoaring isolators are dual sensing.  This means that if you have solar (or are running on shore power) the isolator won't sense this and charge the truck battery as well as the camper battery.   For camper that can sit for sometime between trips, this is a big drawback. 

 

I'm considering replacing my Sure Power isolator and wonder if a dual sensing ACR will cause me problems. My solar controller is set to charge an AGM battery but the truck is using flooded cell batteries. Will the difference in charging voltage cause any problems?

 

I'm also concerned that with the ACR closed will some of the starting current be pulled from the camper battery and associated wiring.


  • 0
2002 Fiat 2500 CTD 4x4, FWC Grandby 1951 Willys CJ3A

#5 rando

rando

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,638 posts
  • LocationColorado

Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:04 PM

The AGM and flooded battery charge curves are very similar, so I wouldn't worry about this slight difference:

 

Battery-Chargers-2.jpg

 

 

As for starting, the long wires are your friend here.   The small resistance in these wires will cause the vast majority of the current to come from your truck battery, and as soon either battery hits 12.75V (which is almost instant on the truck battery) the batteries will separate anyway.

 

I really like the fact that my truck always roars to life, even after sitting in the driveway for weeks without being driven.   If for what ever reason I don't want the truck battery to be charged, I can always flick the switch on the breaker on the wires back to the camper, isolating that from the truck. 


  • 0

2016 Fleet Flatbed

2016 Toyota Tacoma


#6 Vic Harder

Vic Harder

    Doctor Electric

  • Site Team
  • 4,897 posts
  • LocationCalgary, Alberta

Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:27 PM

with the gauge in my truck overhead console i can see big current going over the 2g wires during startup 79 A is the max i have noticed

not worried about that since the wires can handle it and the current us not affecting anything else in the camper, it just flows between the batteries

ditto to rando's comment about always having fully charged truck and camper batteries [emoji4]

Edited by Vic Harder, 23 August 2017 - 05:30 PM.

  • 0

#7 camelracer

camelracer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 960 posts
  • LocationGoleta, Ca

Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:26 AM

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll have to rely on the 30A circuit breaker on the wiring to the camper to protect the wires from starting currents.

 

Now to choose a ACR. I've been looking at Blue Sea SI-ACR and Viltron Cyril CT. Since this will be mounted under the hood I need to check the temp specs of these units.


  • 0
2002 Fiat 2500 CTD 4x4, FWC Grandby 1951 Willys CJ3A

#8 Vic Harder

Vic Harder

    Doctor Electric

  • Site Team
  • 4,897 posts
  • LocationCalgary, Alberta

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:41 PM

i lije the blue sea ml-acr 7622

which 30 A breaker? between batteries or from the camper batteries to the dc fuse panel? if the latter, it will never see the current that runs between the truck and camper
  • 0

#9 camelracer

camelracer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 960 posts
  • LocationGoleta, Ca

Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:36 AM

The Blue Sea 7610 looks like it will work for me. It will allow me to wire it to the starter to open the circuit during start.


  • 0
2002 Fiat 2500 CTD 4x4, FWC Grandby 1951 Willys CJ3A

#10 ntsqd

ntsqd

    Custom User Title

  • Members
  • 2,879 posts
  • LocationNorth So.CA

Posted 26 August 2017 - 04:49 PM

Sounds fail-safe, but normally during cranking the starting battery voltage drops low enough to cause a disconnect anyway.


  • 0
Thom

Where does that road go?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: isolator, battery

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users