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Rookie tire and rear suspension questions

Frontier Eagle tires suspension

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#11 CougarCouple

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:29 AM

Hello cabinfever
We're running Michelin e rated came on the truck, been happy with them so far. I could see their limitations in snow, mud. If aired down might do ok in sand, have not tested, will probably try other tires when these go, just for fun.
As for the timbren product when I'm really loaded and pulling a trailer I have a fair amount of sag in the rear. When I was considering the timbren and thought of them off road, and they only do what they do as you add more load on that device. I thought that you have no ability to adjust the suspension. Maybe on the Hwy or back roads they are fine, with air bags you can soften the suspension just like you can with tires. Then air back op for pavement time. Off road you need as much suspension as possible and being soft is an asset I believe.

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#12 dharte

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

I've gone through many sets of tires on my 2005 F250, including BFG AT, Cooper AT, and Toyo MT and AT. Easily the best overall tires are my current set of Wranglers. Best combination of wear, off road traction and highway comfort. I'm at 10,000 miles and the wear is a little over 1/4 down. My previous sets of tires were all done at 20-25k. The MT's wear ridiculously fast and cut at least 1-2 mpg's. This current set of Wranglers is with a Hawk on full time. I've aired them down to 40 (normally run at 75psi) in sand and never felt like I was going to get stuck. These tires also are fine in snow and rocky terrain, but I haven't been in serious mud yet. These are the Wrangler Adventurer with Kevlar.
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#13 Cayuse

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:25 PM

I ran Cooper AT3's for about 50,000 miles as the first set of tires when I added the camper to my truck and was pretty happy with them but wanted something a bit beefier and replaced them before required for a trip a little over a year ago with a set of Cooper ST Maxx (3 ply sidewall)  lost about 1 mpg with the new tires but happy with the tread design and they perform well off road but are a bit noisy going down the freeway.


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#14 JHanson

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 04:02 PM

Cabinfever,

 

Timbrens definitely do not perform the same function as air bags. Timbrens only engage after the suspension has sagged, whereas air bags keep the suspension at the correct height to begin with, and can be adjusted to compensate for varying loads—most notably when you install or remove a 1,000-pound camper. Air bags are the only way to easily maintain a decent ride and handling when you are removing the camper between trips, especially when combined with adjustable shocks. (This is only necessary for the rear suspension.) 

 

E-rated tires are indeed considered "10-ply rated" but I've found that actual ten-ply tires are far firmer, to the detriment of ride and being able to air down on dirt roads. I don't know if the Schwab tires are actually ten-ply.


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#15 cabinfever

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:28 PM

These are the Wrangler Adventurer with Kevlar.

dharte what is the load rating of these tires? 

 

As for the timbren product when I'm really loaded and pulling a trailer I have a fair amount of sag in the rear. When I was considering the timbren and thought of them off road, and they only do what they do as you add more load on that device. I thought that you have no ability to adjust the suspension. Maybe on the Hwy or back roads they are fine, with air bags you can soften the suspension just like you can with tires. Then air back op for pavement time. Off road you need as much suspension as possible and being soft is an asset I believe.
 

Probably won't be offroading a great amount so I'm hoping that the timbrens will work for my application. With the air bags the flexibility sounds nice but I am worried about the potential for leaks and having to maintain the air pressure. 

 

E-rated tires are indeed considered "10-ply rated" but I've found that actual ten-ply tires are far firmer, to the detriment of ride and being able to air down on dirt roads. I don't know if the Schwab tires are actually ten-ply.

 

My objective for getting a higher load rated tire is due to the heavier load (camper) and not necessarily sidewall protection for offroading. would an e-rated tire still be recommended? 


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#16 cabinfever

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:30 PM

I bought a pair of the very first BFGs to come out with 3 ply sidewalls. They only came in the 10.50R15 size initially. I'm not even sure I want to guess how old this pic is! This was the result of the first trip out with them, a sidewall hole. I had previously banged the (2 ply sidewall) Armstrong Norseman's into that same point many times w/o a problem. Moral of all of this: There's more to sidewall puncture resistance than just sidewall plies. BTW, I saw that same point claim a sidewall on a JK going down Odessa Cyn. 3 years ago.

 

i-R2TZLXT-M.jpg

Holy crap that looks like some sort of predicament my dad would get into! Ok, now you have me more confused. How is 3-ply different than standard or e-rated (10-ply)? Is this an older rating system? 


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#17 Optimistic Paranoid

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:32 PM

Holy crap that looks like some sort of predicament my dad would get into! Ok, now you have me more confused. How is 3-ply different than standard or e-rated (10-ply)? Is this an older rating system? 

 

The third ply is added to some off-road tires in an attempt to add more sidewall protection.  As ntsqd pointed out, it doesn't necessarily work.  In any event, it has NOTHING to do with the tire's load rating.

 

If you're carrying a camper on the back of your truck, you NEED load range E tires to safely handle the weight.  If your off-road activities are limited to driving on beaches and forest service roads and similar, it probably doesn't matter if the tire has the third sidewall or not.  That's really for the hard-core "Damn the jagged rocks and tree stumps!  Full Speed Ahead!" types.


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#18 ntsqd

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 12:41 AM

When you see "10 ply" or "10 Ply Rated" they're talking about in the tread of the tire, not necessarily in the sidewall.

 

I'd say look at that actual weight rating of the tire. I'm not convinced that Load Range E's are an absolute requirement for every truck & camper combo.


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#19 dharte

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:48 AM

dharte what is the load rating of these tires?

Probably won't be offroading a great amount so I'm hoping that the timbrens will work for my application. With the air bags the flexibility sounds nice but I am worried about the potential for leaks and having to maintain the air pressure.


My objective for getting a higher load rated tire is due to the heavier load (camper) and not necessarily sidewall protection for offroading. would an e-rated tire still be recommended?

In my size (275/70/18) the load index is 125 which is 3,640 pounds.
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#20 klahanie

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 03:39 AM


My objective for getting a higher load rated tire is due to the heavier load (camper) and not necessarily sidewall protection for offroading. would an e-rated tire still be recommended? 

Just a fwiw, common size tire load limits at varying psi and max load for can be found in this link

 

https://toyo-arhxo0v...es_20170203.pdf

 

If you are replacing the oem tires I'm going to guess they are P metric size.

IDK the particulars for your vehicle but using the links below ...

 

http://nissannews.co...Specs_10-15.pdf

http://nissannews.co...Specs_10-15.pdf

 

 

...I'll guess they are/were P265/70R16, P265/75R16 or P265/60R18.

The max load rating for each can be found in load table linked above. Note for light truck applications P metric ratings are de rated by a factor of 1.1 (divided by). Don't know if Nissan considers your vehicle a light truck or passenger vehicle but if it is the former replacing the P metric with a LT of the same size will give you a higher rating even in a C ply rating (D for the 18, used LT265/65R18). And I think a LT type tire will be more suitable than a P for hauling a camper.

 

As for E ply rating, IDK enough about it to say. Yes, for a 3/4, 1 ton but for a 5600,5800lb  GVWR vehicle, IDK. Guess you'd have to consider any downsides.

 

Again guessing, if loaded you were 800lbs over GVWR say your rear axle wt would be 4000lbs or ~ 2000lbs each rear tire.  [EDIT all the de rated values of the oem P sizes meet this 2K weight scenario but I understand the desire to upgrade the oem tire type and rating].  I'd gross that up some for peace of mind then use that number for a load rating as a requirement when shopping for tires.

 

or, you could just get an E rated ...

 

HTH


Edited by klahanie, 09 May 2018 - 02:16 PM.

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