110 replies to this topic

[patrickkidd]

This really turned out to be a great great, thanks you all!

There is another thread about insulating an FWC, mostly with Reflectix and solid foam: Insulation
http://www.wanderthe...1557-Insulation

They are talking about adding 1-2R to the existing walls which is already 1-2R. It looks like Warm Window from Joann Fabrics adds a bit more than 7R, and it can be rolled up and stored easier. So my current plan is to cover everything with it from the inside and not just the canvas, securing with Velcro. We’ll see how that goes.

[Stokeme]

I’ll throw out this WTW thread I ran across looking for ideas.
Haven’t gone through it all yet

http://www.wanderthe...camping-advice/

[klahanie]

. It looks like Warm Window from Joann Fabrics adds a bit more than 7R, and it can be rolled up and stored easier.

 

Warm Windows from Joann

product R value claim

 

What a concept !

 

Is FWC still using single layer vinyl ? Best reason I can come up with for them not using a insulated multi layer is clearance issues behind the folding panels ??

 

Someone, please correct me if I am wrong but the Arctic Pak doesn't fit behind the panels and does not seal vapor tight to the walls ?

 

JMO but insulating the canvas and lower "wooden" section would be a huge factory improvement.

[patrickkidd]

Warm Windows from Joann
product R value claim

What a concept !

Is FWC still using single layer vinyl ? Best reason I can come up with for them not using a insulated multi layer is clearance issues behind the folding panels ??

Someone, please correct me if I am wrong but the Arctic Pak doesn't fit behind the panels and does not seal vapor tight to the walls ?

JMO but insulating the canvas and lower "wooden" section would be a huge factory improvement.

From what I have seen, the “Arctic Pack” is just a thin layer of fabric that traps air. On first glance on seeing it in other peoples campers I thought it totally inadequate for serious winter camping.

If I had infinite funds I would build an ideal winter rig with a roll-up warm window layer for the canvas, walls, and permanently behind the cabinets and battery compartment, at least a Camco Wave 6, 200AH battery bank with warm air flow to the main cabin, and an extra 20lb propane tank, plus at least a 1000W+ generator with a small 1000W forced air heater to occasionally dry things out.

I would also have a really stout sleeping bag (-40F) as a last resort. I had that in Jackson Hole that one really cold winter in the Vanagon and I never had to worry about my own safety.

[Chrish]

From what I have seen, the “Arctic Pack” is just a thin layer of fabric that traps air. On first glance on seeing it in other peoples campers I thought it totally inadequate for serious winter camping.
If I had infinite funds I would build an ideal winter rig with a roll-up warm window layer for the canvas, walls, and permanently behind the cabinets and battery compartment, at least a Camco Wave 6, 200AH battery bank with warm air flow to the main cabin, and an extra 20lb propane tank, plus at least a 1000W+ generator with a small 1000W forced air heater to occasionally dry things out.
I would also have a really stout sleeping bag (-40F) as a last resort. I had that in Jackson Hole that one really cold winter in the Vanagon and I never had to worry about my own safety.

yes on the high cold rated sleeping bag. We turn the propane off when sleeping. No need to heat a space that is not being used.yea its hard to leave that warm bag in the morning, but it is winter camping after all, and the two minutes of discomfort needed to get the propane heater going is relative luxury. At least I'm not crawling out of a ground tent with no heat. Been there.

[Wallowa]

This really turned out to be a great great, thanks you all!

There is another thread about insulating an FWC, mostly with Reflectix and solid foam: Insulation
http://www.wanderthe...1557-Insulation

They are talking about adding 1-2R to the existing walls which is already 1-2R. It looks like Warm Window from Joann Fabrics adds a bit more than 7R, and it can be rolled up and stored easier. So my current plan is to cover everything with it from the inside and not just the canvas, securing with Velcro. We’ll see how that goes.

  

 

The "Joann Fabrics' Warm Window" I believe is a no-go for a FWC...designed for homes and would be a bugger to mount/use in our campers...plus we have Hunter Douglas honeycomb shades in our home and the R ratings is only 4, so I doubt the R7 claim....

 

Additional insulation for the windows and propane box is a good idea, but in the end I doubt any FWC will be adequately insulated to truly keep in the heat in winter...or keep it out it out in the summer...

 

I used Velcro attached 3" 'blue board' foam insulation to the under side of the overhang and exposed sides/ends of the Hawk for insulation and to limit air flow in and out of the bed of the truck...in the end a metal truck bed provides damn near zero reduction of heat lose...guess I could inject the truck bed with expanding insulation!  

 

Just saying and I could be wrong...

 

Phil

[patrickkidd]

The "Joann Fabrics' Warm Window" I believe is a no-go for a FWC...designed for homes and would be a bugger to mount/use in our campers...plus we have Hunter Douglas honeycomb shades in our home and the R ratings is only 4, so I doubt the R7 claim....

Additional insulation for the windows and propane box is a good idea, but in the end I doubt any FWC will be adequately insulated to truly keep in the heat in winter...or keep it out it out in the summer...

I used Velcro attached 3" 'blue board' foam insulation to the under side of the overhang and exposed sides/ends of the Hawk for insulation and to limit air flow in and out of the bed of the truck...in the end a metal truck bed provides damn near zero reduction of heat lose...guess I could inject the truck bed with expanding insulation!

Just saying and I could be wrong...

Phil

I am curious, what is it about the warm window material that you think would work in a camper? It is 100% synthetic and did well in my Vanagon in a cold winter in Jackson Hole with similar heating.

[klahanie]

I'm interested in hearing more about the generator + electric heater idea. ..

 

If/when we go back to winter camping for sure I'd like a secondary method of space heating, if only for redundancy. I looked into this idea years back. Carrying space for a 2000w genny was and still is problematic for us and the 1000w size... IDK for the money...bigger would be nicer and perhaps justifiable for use as back up for home/cottage.

 

For all it's lack of sexiness the big Atwood furnace we have is tough to beat for quickly heating up a frozen camper. The prob with our camper is it looses that heat so quickly, then the furnace cycles and cooks us. Better insulation would help - and help for 3 season use, which is where I feel FWC is missing out - but for winter, a lesser, constant output from electric would be appreciated during the longer evenings spent lounging inside. Overnight we'd prob off the heat entirely, depending on water storage.

 

So am curious, have people been running these gennys all night or just mornings and evenings ? Noise issues or camping solo ?

other  thoughts ?

 

Thanks

~David

[patrickkidd]

I'm interested in hearing more about the generator + electric heater idea. ..

If/when we go back to winter camping for sure I'd like a secondary method of space heating, if only for redundancy. I looked into this idea years back. Carrying space for a 2000w genny was and still is problematic for us and the 1000w size... IDK for the money...bigger would be nicer and perhaps justifiable for use as back up for home/cottage.

For all it's lack of sexiness the big Atwood furnace we have is tough to beat for quickly heating up a frozen camper. The prob with our camper is it looses that heat so quickly, then the furnace cycles and cooks us. Better insulation would help - and help for 3 season use, which is where I feel FWC is missing out - but for winter, a lesser, constant output from electric would be appreciated during the longer evenings spent lounging inside. Overnight we'd prob off the heat entirely, depending on water storage.

So am curious, have people been running these gennys all night or just mornings and evenings ? Noise issues or camping solo ?
other thoughts ?

Thanks
~David

I’ve never actually use the generator to power a supplemental heater in a van or a camper. My 1000W Honda generator is just very slightly smaller than the 2000W model. They’re practically the same size. They are both very quiet and have an E Conneaut throttle that will obviously throttle up to full speed when running heater like this . 1500W is the most common small electric space heater size, for example that you see advertised for marine use. Electric heat is very expensive compared to propane heat, but it doesn’t generate any moisture and may even help dry things a little bit.

[Wallowa]

I am curious, what is it about the warm window material that you think would work in a camper? It is 100% synthetic and did well in my Vanagon in a cold winter in Jackson Hole with similar heating.

 

Quantifying the R factor on basically a single sheet of material [no thickness given that I found] is at best a WAG...no mystery to insulation or wonder fabric, thickness and material count...plus given the heat loss characteristics of our FWC campers you could put 5" inches of foam on the windows and still lose heat rapidly, let alone draping fabric on windows...

 

Yes, every little bit adds up....and we draw the curtains over the windows, more for privacy...but even the ArticPak which traps air, a great insulator, is of minimal help..but to claim R7 with a single pane window loses all credibility...

 

Practically speaking the FWC space heater when needed and warm bedding/clothing is about as good as it gets in FWC...but that for me is just fine...

 

Phil