110 replies to this topic

[Bill D]

 

Adding the foam made a big difference in the amount of cold air that came in near the corner sections and the nose area (that's the section with the most tuck tape).

 

As you can see it also made it perfectly level between the slide out portion and the base section.  There is no longer a 1/2" lump under the mattress.

 

As others have mentioned adding something like Hypervent on top of what you see here would also aid in reducing moisture between the mattress and cabover section.  For myself, moisture under the mattress has not been an issue.  I live in a cold dry climate.  I also mentioned I always sleep with a window about half open, no matter how cold it is.

 

BTW, if you lift the carpet at the nose portion, you will find the wiring for your marker lights.  I changed my lights and ran a dedicated ground wire to each light,  No more grounding issues.

Edited by Bill D, 08 December 2018 - 11:00 PM.

[Wallowa]

 

"Adding the foam made a big difference in the amount of cold air that came in near the corner sections and the nose area (that's the section with the most tuck tape).

 

As you can see it also made it perfectly level between the slide out portion and the base section.  There is no longer a 1/2" lump under the mattress.

 

As others have mentioned adding something like Hypervent on top of what you see here would also aid in reducing moisture between the mattress and cabover section.  For myself, moisture under the mattress has not been an issue.  I live in a cold dry climate.  I also mentioned I always sleep with a window about half open, no matter how cold it is.

 

BTW, if you lift the carpet at the nose portion, you will find the wiring for your marker lights.  I changed my lights and ran a dedicated ground wire to each light,  No more grounding issues."

 

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Interesting...those 'black puzzle pieces of foam' I have as floor runners in my shop..I can't tell what those red bands are?

 

We never use the pull out because we don't need the xtra space and with it pushed in, it is a lot easier to climb and down into the bed area from the seat cushions... [side dinette...'16 Hawk]

 

"Grounding issues"?

Edited by Wallowa, 09 December 2018 - 12:11 AM.

[Bill D]

The "red bands" are Tuck Tape (sheathing tape).

It's a vapor sealing tape, typically used on seams of foam insulation boards.

 

link to Tuck Tape.

 

The grounding issues I was referring to is how the factory marker lights are individually grounded to the aluminum skin of the camper.  It's a crappy connection that requires ongoing maintenance (or hitting the lights with a broom).  Grounding them inside to a dry corrosion free environment is much more reliable.

 

I should have taken a picture of that while I was at it, but I hate taking photos while I'm working.  I applaud those of you who do take photos during a process. 

Edited by Bill D, 09 December 2018 - 01:46 AM.

[BWSracing]

Ventilation is your best option. Wipe up condensation before you lower the top.

The amount of condensation is overwhelming, as well as ice build up between the outer layer and the insulation pack. We wipe down ever day before and after but the sheets/mattress and pillow at the front edge get soaked. We have cross flow ventilation but are also trying to heel the heat in when it’s blowing 20+ and 6 degrees outside.

[BWSracing]

Yup, ventilation is key.

I've camped at -31C -23.8F with no condensation issues. I open one window about 1/3 to 1/2 way. I also open the fantastic fan vent a crack to allow air to flow through.

i guess we are a bunch of mouth breathers. Two dogs, the wife and myself. I’ll try more ventilation.

[klahanie]

Anyone just sleep outside ?

 

BWSracing, interesting about the ice build up behind the arctic pack. That's got to really suck when it melts. I've often wondered why FWC hasn't gone with a multi layer soft side. Surely that would be some improvement. I'm guessing interference with the lift panels but IDK. Maybe it's cost or sales simply don't warrant it as most buyers might expect these to be 3 season campers at best.

 

I think condensation can occur in a number of circumstances. And there is not always one sure fire solution. Lots of varying experiences reported here and condition variables like temps, humidity, air circulation and replacement, number of bodies inside etc.

 

But I always come back to the elephant in the winter camping room, lack of adequate insulation.

[pvstoy]

My first FWC 83 Fleet the liner had insulation in the liner. Mine leaked and water got into this insulation and would take long time to dry out. They might have went away from this design because of that problem and having results of mold etc...

[craig333]

i guess we are a bunch of mouth breathers. Two dogs, the wife and myself. I’ll try more ventilation.

Are you running the forced air furnace?

[klahanie]

^ Interesting, that jives with me thinking I had read sometime about a liner design used ages ago, maybe it was in the lift patent description Craig posted.

If not insulated, I wonder if a breathable fabric might be an idea...

And, just to add some thoughts on air circulation ... Like other users - I imagine - I have a sequence to the places I look for condensation in the morning. If present, the accumulation typically follows a progressive order of locations. For me, the first place is on the cabover vinyl, at my feet when sleeping. If there is no condensate here, there will almost never be any found anywhere else inside, even on the vinyl wall closest to our heads.
 

I don't think this foot area is caused directly by bodily evaporation but rather from the general interior atmosphere condensing at that spot (when the sidewall is cold enough). Also, on occasion when we have left a water jug or similar bulky object on a rear countertop and placed close to a corner, there will sometimes be condensate behind it, on the vinyl. My theory is condensation can occur more readily in both these spots because of poor air circulation - relative to more freely exposed surfaces. For this reason I think sleeping NS might be helpful. And also, perhaps, forced air movement along the camper interior walls.

... and on air replacement/exchange... I think, when using a furnace overnight, the ideal would be to heat the camper atmosphere, with the warming air absorbing interior moisture, then have that moist air exhausted. This to be replaced with new outside air (hopefully drier but certainly colder) entering the camper warmed by the furnace; this by employing some degree of outside air mix into the furnace's cold air intake.

I don't know if the newer campers are airtight enough, or the blower motor powerful enough, that the furnace could pressurize the interior enough to force exhaust through the ceiling vents. Most users are probably relying on natural heat convection (if that's the correct term usage) with a combination of window, turnbuckle hatch and ceiling vent open. But I don't think the standard, and fantastic fan exterior covers are particularly well suited for venting during rainy or windy conditions and I often feel cold air flowing down thru the vent on calm nights. So some degree of forced air movement, with make up air would be helpful, IMO.

[ckent323]

klahanie,

 

The Tan sidewall fabric used prior to the grey vinyl had a fuzzy interior flocking type surface.  That was the stuff in my 1980's Keystone.  It would hold water and discolor.  Worse it got brittle and developed pinholes.  I have seen several other campers that had this and most had leaking issues from pinholes and tears in the old fabric  Worse most had obvious signs of water and mold staining on the interior surfaces from condensation.  In pretty much every one of the old campers that had water damage it was most obvious in the front and rear corners. 

 

I would like to see a new lift panel design that has openings to allow access to the fabric behind the panels to wipe off moisture, etc. as that is a place that is hard to wipe dry and is a good place for mold to grow.

 

Condensation remains a challenge but the newer Grey vinyl seems to hold up better.

 

Craig