29 replies to this topic

[JediahPorter]

I'm the proud owner of a 1999 Hawk. For a while I watched national listings through the links on the "used truck camper listings" thread. I found this particular camper through a local web listing. I think I got a good deal, and have confidence in that thanks to the diligent sharing of links on the used listings compiled elsewhere on this forum. Thanks all!  

 

I'll gladly post here as I renovate. Also, I'll ask some questions as I go. 

 

I've had the camper since June of '18. I've probably spent 40 nights in it already, largely "as is". 

 

At time of purchase:

• one roof lift panel was completely gone
• stove works
• fridge seems to not work
• Gritty and dirty inside
• No bed mattress. 
• Leaks in vinyl
• Sink drains, but electric pump doesn't work
• Water tank doesn't hold water. Leaks at the drain. 
• Never included heat of any sort

Budget, time, and "handiness" limit my renovation progress. Also, I'm accustomed to "roughing it", so I've been stoked with what this camper has to offer and haven't felt great pressure to race on a renovation. Nonetheless, I'm plugging away at it. 

 

Things I've done so far:

• Assembled a mattress. I think I did well at this. Foam is expensive! And getting good cushion and insulation is tricky. Also, I wanted the mattress to fit in the smallest iteration of the cabover (roof down, bed "slide-out" collapsed) yet still fold out to the queen size. I had 5 vertical inches to fit the doubled mattress in. That meant I could make a mattress that is just less than 2.5 inches thick in queen and ~4.5 inches as a single bed. Attached photo shows the foams I used. I taped the closed cell sheets together along their long edges, doing so such that they hinge flat together. The memory foam covers the harder foam. I shoved it all in a queen size comforter duvet cover. The duvet is larger than necessary, but it was cheap and easy. Sewing a cover wouldn't be too complicated. The resulting bed works in either queen or single orientation. My lady digs the spartan cushion of the queen configuration. I think I'd prefer to use a latex foam topper instead of the memory foam. Next time... 
• Replaced the front roof lift panel. Marty at ATC made one up. The entire transaction went real smoothly. Half the price I was quoted from FWC Cali. (my local FWC dealer -Jackson, WY- sent me straight to the Cali team). Manufactured and shipped in a couple weeks. I installed using existing holes and included hardware. Kind of a bear to install, but not impossible for my 10 thumbs. Maybe 2.5 hours installing, solo. 
• Coated visible vinyl holes. There's still a leak somewhere, but not too bad. I coated the holes with the "HH66" vinyl sealant I saw recommended elsewhere here. 
• And, of course, general clean up. I tore out some peeling flooring, washed the couch upholstery, reinforced the bed/couch/storage foot locker. 

 

As winter locks down on Wydaho, my next priorities are winterizing. Help me out:

 

• Insulating the vinyl is an obvious step. I've seen some of the home-made solutions, and I've asked ATC about making me an "Arctic Pack". I was curious to learn that installing an ATC Arctic Pack would require temporarily detaching the existing vinyl from the roof, in order to install the velcro. I'm inclined to do something much simpler. Something with that reflectix stuff?
• I want baller propane heat. I'm not afraid of the cost of the Propex heaters. But I dunno where to install. The obvious place is beneath the fridge in the externally-accessed storage spot there. Seems best to maybe just ask advice from the Propex importer? For venting and air supply etc. Or consider something else entirely? Again, ATC surprised me when they said that a furnace install would require reframing the camper. That seems excessive? What am I missing? 
• With a proper propane furnace, I'll need an upgraded electrical system... (the current lights run on the truck battery. Like, the truck's only battery. I don't use 'em much, as a result) Which is a whole ball of wax, I know... If I'm upgrading electrical, seems appropriate to consider future needs. Like maybe even a 12v fridge/cooler. There are piles and piles of web resources for "vanlife" electrical systems. Too much information, really.
• First, is there any reason that someone's Sprinter van electrical system won't work in my Hawk? Next, can anyone point me to a clear and reliable source of super-basic information on planning and purchasing for an upgraded electrical/battery system?
• I'm thinking of about 125 amp-hours of 12v AGM/Gel batteries, charged mainly from the truck inverter (with the option to add solar later). Seems like that'll run, for a few days, the lights, the water pump (or a replaced water pump), the heater (super basic/dumb question: do Propex heaters blow heat, or just radiate/convect it? Some of their draw seems like it must be from a fan?), and maybe charge a cell phone a little bit. Double up the battery capacity if and when I add in a full electric cooler/fridge. 
• Don't worry... I won't fill the water tank up in the winter. I'm not super handy, but I'm not ignorant either. 

 

What am I missing? 

 

Oh, and a crazy fantasy. Neither my truck ('01 F150. Airbags and heavier leaf spring installed) nor the camper has a sliding window where their respective windows meet. What would it be like to remove both windows? Entirely remove them. And install a giant version of one of those dust/water boots. Dumb idea? They're roughly the same size as each other. It would be nice to be able to pre heat the camper while driving the truck (and curtain it off when I don't need to heat the camper) and to crawl back and forth from time to time. 

 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Vic Harder]

I'm the proud owner of a 1999 Hawk. For a while I watched national listings through the links on the "used truck camper listings" thread. I found this particular camper through a local web listing. I think I got a good deal, and have confidence in that thanks to the diligent sharing of links on the used listings compiled elsewhere on this forum. Thanks all!  

 

I'll gladly post here as I renovate. Also, I'll ask some questions as I go. 

 

I've had the camper since June of '18. I've probably spent 40 nights in it already, largely "as is". 

 

At time of purchase:

• one roof lift panel was completely gone
• stove works
• fridge seems to not work
• Gritty and dirty inside
• No bed mattress. 
• Leaks in vinyl
• Sink drains, but electric pump doesn't work
• Water tank doesn't hold water. Leaks at the drain. 
• Never included heat of any sort

Budget, time, and "handiness" limit my renovation progress. Also, I'm accustomed to "roughing it", so I've been stoked with what this camper has to offer and haven't felt great pressure to race on a renovation. Nonetheless, I'm plugging away at it. 

 

Things I've done so far:

• Assembled a mattress. I think I did well at this. Foam is expensive! And getting good cushion and insulation is tricky. Also, I wanted the mattress to fit in the smallest iteration of the cabover (roof down, bed "slide-out" collapsed) yet still fold out to the queen size. I had 5 vertical inches to fit the doubled mattress in. That meant I could make a mattress that is just less than 2.5 inches thick in queen and ~4.5 inches as a single bed. Attached photo shows the foams I used. I taped the closed cell sheets together along their long edges, doing so such that they hinge flat together. The memory foam covers the harder foam. I shoved it all in a queen size comforter duvet cover. The duvet is larger than necessary, but it was cheap and easy. Sewing a cover wouldn't be too complicated. The resulting bed works in either queen or single orientation. My lady digs the spartan cushion of the queen configuration. I think I'd prefer to use a latex foam topper instead of the memory foam. Next time... 
• Replaced the front roof lift panel. Marty at ATC made one up. The entire transaction went real smoothly. Half the price I was quoted from FWC Cali. (my local FWC dealer -Jackson, WY- sent me straight to the Cali team). Manufactured and shipped in a couple weeks. I installed using existing holes and included hardware. Kind of a bear to install, but not impossible for my 10 thumbs. Maybe 2.5 hours installing, solo. 
• Coated visible vinyl holes. There's still a leak somewhere, but not too bad. I coated the holes with the "HH66" vinyl sealant I saw recommended elsewhere here. 
• And, of course, general clean up. I tore out some peeling flooring, washed the couch upholstery, reinforced the bed/couch/storage foot locker. 

 

As winter locks down on Wydaho, my next priorities are winterizing. Help me out:

 

• Insulating the vinyl is an obvious step. I've seen some of the home-made solutions, and I've asked ATC about making me an "Arctic Pack". I was curious to learn that installing an ATC Arctic Pack would require temporarily detaching the existing vinyl from the roof, in order to install the velcro. I'm inclined to do something much simpler. Something with that reflectix stuff?
• I want baller propane heat. I'm not afraid of the cost of the Propex heaters. But I dunno where to install. The obvious place is beneath the fridge in the externally-accessed storage spot there. Seems best to maybe just ask advice from the Propex importer? For venting and air supply etc. Or consider something else entirely? Again, ATC surprised me when they said that a furnace install would require reframing the camper. That seems excessive? What am I missing? 
• With a proper propane furnace, I'll need an upgraded electrical system... (the current lights run on the truck battery. Like, the truck's only battery. I don't use 'em much, as a result) Which is a whole ball of wax, I know... If I'm upgrading electrical, seems appropriate to consider future needs. Like maybe even a 12v fridge/cooler. There are piles and piles of web resources for "vanlife" electrical systems. Too much information, really.
• First, is there any reason that someone's Sprinter van electrical system won't work in my Hawk? Next, can anyone point me to a clear and reliable source of super-basic information on planning and purchasing for an upgraded electrical/battery system?
• I'm thinking of about 125 amp-hours of 12v AGM/Gel batteries, charged mainly from the truck inverter (with the option to add solar later). Seems like that'll run, for a few days, the lights, the water pump (or a replaced water pump), the heater (super basic/dumb question: do Propex heaters blow heat, or just radiate/convect it? Some of their draw seems like it must be from a fan?), and maybe charge a cell phone a little bit. Double up the battery capacity if and when I add in a full electric cooler/fridge. 
• Don't worry... I won't fill the water tank up in the winter. I'm not super handy, but I'm not ignorant either. 

 

What am I missing? 

 

Oh, and a crazy fantasy. Neither my truck ('01 F150. Airbags and heavier leaf spring installed) nor the camper has a sliding window where their respective windows meet. What would it be like to remove both windows? Entirely remove them. And install a giant version of one of those dust/water boots. Dumb idea? They're roughly the same size as each other. It would be nice to be able to pre heat the camper while driving the truck (and curtain it off when I don't need to heat the camper) and to crawl back and forth from time to time. 

Welcome to the cult!

 

Propex heaters have a fan.  I installed one this fall.

 

Re: Electrical, I hope when you said "charged mainly from the truck inverter " you meant alternator?

 

And yes, there are reasons why someone else's install won't work for you.  You need to figure out your estimated daily power consumption as a start.  125AH of battery gives you about 60AH usable.  If you use 20AH a day, then you can go three days without charging.

 

Lots of good info in existing threads here.  Mine is here - http://www.wanderthe...e-power-scotty/

[JediahPorter]

 

Re: Electrical, I hope when you said "charged mainly from the truck inverter " you meant alternator?

 

 

 

 

Good catch. See? I'm not that handy. I do value linguistic precision, and I know that I screwed that one up. I meant alternator. 

[JediahPorter]

 

 

Lots of good info in existing threads here.  Mine is here - http://www.wanderthe...e-power-scotty/

 

Holy moley, Vic Harder... I knew it was complicated, but I didn't know just how complicated. The good thing is that your explanation is clear as day, even to my simple brain. The math isn't as clear. But that'll come with some homework. Again, thanks for the link. That's what I'm looking for! 

[CougarCouple]

Hello and welcome JediahPorter
Think I read here that some one used reflectix as a liner with positive results. Have you herd of the mister buddy heaters I think they have there down side but you can find YouTube videos on them in campers. Heater install needs to be framed for support and safety, I'm sure you were not told that needed reframing just to get you to spend money, also as a commercial enterprise they won't just half ass it. Vic's thread is a good read, don't think you will go wrong there. I would not tie the truck and camper togeather by removing both windows, that's just my opinion. Don't put water in your h2o tank and you'll be fine ( sorry had to )

Russ

[sameguy]

A propex heater is a good option for you.  They are easy to install with very rudimentary plumbing and electrical skills.  Will require drilling two holes in the skin of your camper, one for combustion air inlet and one for exhaust, these will need to be a minimum distance apart specified in the installation guide.  They use very little electricity and are reasonably quiet.  I installed one in my teardrop camper in about 5 hours which included opening the box, planning it out and running to the Farmers COOP a couple times to talk to the propane guy and having him make me a hose / regulator.  I bet I could get one in in 2.5 hours now.  If your camper doesn't have a place to put a propane bottle I would consider hanging it on the outside of the camper, meaning one more hole in the skin. If I were adding a Propex heater to a FWC, I think I would hedge my bets and go with the larger Propex unit if camping in cold weather.

 

Many people use a Mr. Buddy or similar heaters in their campers. The down side is the surface temp of the heater can be up to 1000 degrees so fire safety is an absolute must.  Burning propane in this way (unvented) also adds a considerable amount of moisture to the air which can cause an issue with condensation.  If they are kept clean they do not produce carbon monoxide and in a pop up camper, I wouldn't be too concerned about them burning up all of the oxygen in the room. (Mr. buddy has a low oxygen shutoff which can affect its performance at high altitude, although I have used mine at 10,000ft+ without issue) 

 

As far as power requirements goes, many people with your requirements get by with one deep cell battery, 100AH.  You will be charging your camper battery from your trucks alternator so it doesn't have to last weeks between charges, just a few days.  You can go hog wild with electrical, solar, etc. but you can also start off very simple and inexpensively.  If planned well, you can always add another battery if you need, and upgrade to solar as you learn more and feel more comfortable with your power requirements.  My teardrop camper has one 100AH battery which runs the lights, charge random devices, Propex Heater, and occasionally the ARB fridge.  I would guess the battery could run the lights, cell phones, etc, and Propex heater for a week, adding in the fridge would likely drop it to 3 to 4 days.

 

There is a fantastic thread on Expedition Portal called "How to make a cheap isolated dual-battery setup for $50"  https://expeditionpo...p-for-50.77503/

Despite the fact that there are 70 odd pages in this thread, it outlines very simply how to get this done on the first page.  Many people will argue that charging a deep cycle battery from your alternator with a simple setup may not get it charged to 100% but you can get it to 90 to 95%in 30 minutes which is pretty good in my book.

 

My advice is to keep it simple, make a plan and start a thread here or Expedition Portal and ask lots of questions.  The collective brain trust of both of these forums will get you lined out in short order.  Good luck with your projects!

[JediahPorter]

Alrighty... an update. 

 

I've secured some parts for electricity and heat. This collection of parts brings more questions than answers... 

 

I just got ahold of:

• Propex 2000 heater. And associated doodads that Karl at Westy Ventures said I'd need.
• Renogy 200ah AGM battery. Thing's giant. Weighs more than each of my ex wives. 
• Keyline smart isolator. Don't tell me this is the wrong thing. I did a ton of research. Well, if you tell me its the wrong thing, do so gently. It's still in the package; I can return it. 
• A bunch of wires and connectors and stuff. Marine grade, Ancor brand. Smaller stuff. I think it's 14 awg. For connecting fuse box to appliances etc. 

 

Already wired into the truck is a long run of heavy gauge cable. The former owner had some sort of pesticide tank in the bed with an electric pump he ran off the truck battery. Heavy gauge battery cables are spendy, so I'm hoping to cut this one down to use between truck battery, smart isolator, and house battery. That's my first question: Dumb idea to try and reuse this cable? It's a pair of big, fat, insulated wires with a ton of smaller strands inside. The sum is a pretty giant cable. The super simple follow-up question is "how do I get those ring-terminal connector thingys onto the end of the cut up reused heavy gauge wire?" Even more basic: how do I buy the right ring-terminal connector thingys? I don't know the effective gauge of the existing heavy wire. 

 

The "stock" electrical system on the Hawk seems to work. At least for powering the lights. I'm going to keep that intact. At least, I assume it's the stock set up; there's a pair of thin cables I ran from the truck battery under the truck and up to the front left side of the truck bed. There, this cable from the truck battery plugs into a matching cable coming out of the camper. I connected the two (and dealt with some blown fuses) and the lights worked inside. Seems like a good sign. My rough vision is to install the house battery inside the camper and rewire the existing camper wiring to the house battery instead of to the truck battery. Seems like that should be pretty straightforward. Then I'll plug the propex wiring into the existing fuse box etc. 

 

What am I missing or overlooking? 

 

Also, in the realm of super basic questions that I can't seem to find answers to elsewhere on the web... How the heck do I attach to my brand new Renogy battery? Renogy says that the terminals are "T13". I've searched far and wide and found nothing that describes "T13" battery terminals and attaching to them. It just looks like a threaded hole. Do I simply find the bolt that fits and stack inbound and outbound wires on that bolt? Seems like it shouldn't be that simple... 

 

Also, how do I tell the charge level of this battery? Did Renogy send it to me charged, you think? Seems I'll need a tool to tell that its charged now, and I'll need a similar tool to monitor things in the future. Is that just a regular volt meter? Is there such a thing as a "regular volt meter"? Or are there different kinds? I know there are sophisticated monitoring systems for these camper battery rigs, but I don't want to go down that road just yet. 

 

Thanks team! 

Edited by JediahPorter, 28 January 2019 - 03:48 AM.

[JediahPorter]

Oh, and also... who can shoot me straight on this AGM battery and the cold. I know that it'll lose charge faster in the cold, and I know that charging it when it is frozen (a state the liquids enter when charge and temp are both low, right?) is no good. But, what's the common-sense way to deal with a battery like this in relatively cold northern intermountain climates? Can I store it in the camper for a month or two of non-use? Or should it come in the house for spells like that? It's a bear to move around... 

[JediahPorter]

Just spent a half day working on some of the aforementioned renovations. Mainly, I pulled out cabinet paneling to see what I'm working with. And then I strapped the big Renogy battery down under the couch. I worked on re-routing some cabling and securing various fasteners etc. Notably, through trial and error, I learned that the Renogy "T13* battery terminals take an 8mm coarse thread (1.25) bolt. It seems that the crux of my Propex heater install will be the propane plumbing. I have so far chased a few dead-end leads in securing pro help with propane stuff here in Idaho's Teton Valley. I have some other options to pursue. Also, I secured Reflectix insulation for the vinyl. It seems that it will stay pretty secure and tight just by tucking appropriately sized sheets behind the lift panels, along the sides, and using the bungee anchors to steady/secure the reflectix sheets; pretty simple. 

 

There's some sort of "system monitor"  with lights and a pair of switches (one toggles on and off while one is just essentially a push-button) built into the cabinets. The faceplate decal is gone, so I don't know what this was ever for. I can kind of deduce from where the wires go. For instance, one switch is clearly for the water pump. Can I successfully eliminate this or ignore it, you think? Or ignore most of it, maybe keeping the water pump switch in line. 

[Vic Harder]

Oh, and also... who can shoot me straight on this AGM battery and the cold. 

AGM batteries and Flooded Lead Acid batteries do fine in the cold.  They will not freeze unless they are at least partially discharged.  They don't perform as well when cold though.