28 replies to this topic

[Advmoto18]

As far as the snow plow package is concerned, it MIGHT be a good idea if you intend to upgrade to a better (heavier) aftermarket bumper like the ones that Buckstop makes.  Or if you intend to mount a front trailer hitch and cargo rack.  But you can always just add an aftermarket upgrade like Timbrens in that case, instead.

 

Otherwise, I agree that it's not a good idea.

 

I checked into this as well when I bought my new truck since I knew I would be adding the winch and winch bumper.  Ford OEM springs, both front and rear, regardless of optioned package, are sourced out and manufactured by the lowest bidder.  Regardless of sub-model, factory suspension will be bone jarring off-road.

 

The rear springs are 4 or 5 thick leaves which makes for a very harsh ride.  The front coils are just as harsh, if not worse, especially if you order the snow package.  And I'm just talking about tarmac driving, go off-road and the suspension will beat you up.  Sadly, you don't know how bad you're getting beat up until you ride in a rig with an upgraded suspension or install an aftermarket suspension by any of the big name, reputable vendors.  Consider Fox, Bilstein, Carli,  sadly Old Man Emu only offers suspension products for the older Super Duty;  OME new springs and shocks literally transformed my 2003 Super Duty's ride).

 

Frankly when it comes to suspension products, I would not give the Ford dealer 1 penny over the base package pricing when it comes to suspension.  Save the coin and invest it in new springs (leaf on the rear and coils up front) and shocks from one of the better quality vendors.  It will transform the 2020's ride as well,  I have little doubt.  

 

Suspension features such as progressive leaves/coils, an added weight carrying leaf in the rear (that only comes into play when you add a lot of weight (ie., 1000#) to the bed are very nice features to have when traveling off-road to that special dispersed camping site.

 

IMO, even the FX4 exterior components are not worth the extra coin for the upgrade.  I went with the Lariat 4x4 model and took the money saved and added the Hellwig Big Wig sway bar, custom fabricated skid plates for the fuel tank and transfer case.

 

Here's what you get for the Super Duty FX4 extra coin:

 

Hill descent control

Rancho front and rear shocks

Transfer case and fuel tank skid plates

FX4 off-road box

 

Mine came with Ranchos even though I didn't order the FX4 or an upgraded shock.  We tested them when I pulled them off at about 100 miles and could discern no difference from the XL shock.  I think the FX4 shock is simply painted XL shock with an added boot.

 

Climb under a FX4 at the dealer.  Would you really call that piece of flimsy metal a skid plate?  More appropriate term would be a pine cone deflector.

 

I've been 4x4ing since 1970 and I'm not sure why Hill Descent Control is so desirable.  Perhaps for those who have no off-road driving skills and find themselves needing software help?  Kind of like inexperienced 737 MAX 8 pilots not US trained and based.  Had to throw that in there because as a retired airline pilot, I think Boeing/MAX are getting unfair media coverage.

 

And don't forget that very cool FX4 advertisement/decal on the bed!

 

I'm not knocking Ford at all.  99% of the buyers are urban folks who want to portray an image.  The truck is perfect for them.  But, load up your camper and head off into the boonies is an entirely different matter IMO.  Save the FX4 coin and invest it in worthy after-market components.

 

Given the cost of Super Duties, I consider them 15-20 year trucks for me.  The 6.7 will be as well respected as the 7.3 in another 10 years.  And even though we can't easily work on the 6.7 and it needs DEF (in the US) it is still going to be a great long-term truck, hence I call my upgrades and investment.

 

A friend just picked up a new 2019 F-250 Platinum (he has BIG bucks) in that beautiful metallic candy apple red.  Tough not wanting to sell my old 2016 and get a new beer can truck (aluminum).  But then I only have 30,000 miles on my F-350 plus all the stuff I've added to make it work for me.  And I come to my senses...even before looking at the sticker of the new ones.  Plus, 30,000 miles isn't even broken in!

 

Again, go through the Ford Upfitter manual, if a Ford option you want is in the manual and offered by an after-market vendor, check it out.  The product will almost always be better and sometimes not as expensive as the Ford product.

 

Good luck and do your home work.  Research can save you money and will certainly improve the fun factor of the new truck.

 

My 2 cents worth of advice is worth what you paid for it...Zippo.  Just have fun figuring out how you want your new 2020 setup.

Edited by Advmoto18, 20 March 2019 - 11:58 AM.

[klahanie]

I'll add my perspective on the snowplow / camper package option with respect to the front springs.

 

I too looked into this before ordering. I read on the forums guys who were replacing their stock springs with heavier Ford parts for lift and/or "stiffer" springs (this went way back to the snow plow option "X code" front leaf packs). At the time I looked into it, there were also some aftermarket coils, usually progressive rate and, at most, in two options, one for gas, one for diesel with no real mention of running a camper. Ford OTOH might have equipped with one of a bunch of linear spring rate coils, presumably in keeping with the large number of vehicle cab/WB/application/engine configurations.

 

The spring that I ordered ended up, according to the Ford rating, ~600# higher than my loaded font axle (FA) weight. I found the ride both on and off highway quite acceptable. Then I added a winch/bumper which put ~190# more on the FA and found, off highway the front end would sometimes contact the suspension stops (there's not much stock upward travel). As a replacement I tried the +500# and the +1000# rated Ford spring (was about $200 CAD from the dealer). Both were acceptable but the +500# was naturally more compliant. So I've been happy now with, according to the Ford rating, a spring rated ~1000# higher than the scaled load on the FA. Even better, turns out with or without the camper on, the front end weights about the same so the (front) ride is pretty consistent and is again acceptable, esp off highway. As always, YMMV.

 

It's worth it, IMO, to consider the intended application and, possibly, to take advantage of the factory options. It's prob not a lot of additional money when ordering, and not every truck mfr gives the factory choice.

 

Back to the OP, online spec says ~4000# front curb wt (2019 base vehicle, 6.2L), standard 5200# front spring. Add to the FA, what, 350# for options and passengers ? That would leave ~900# spread on the FA, weight to spring rating. Add the FA load from the camper and gear = ?, maybe a few hundred pounds. Depends on the camper and the packing.

 

Even so, in the absence of a winch/bumper, I'm thinking the 5600# spring (comes with the camper pkg (?)) might be a better bet than 6000# (snow plow).

Edited by klahanie, 21 March 2019 - 04:55 AM.

[Advmoto18]

Klahanie offers informative info.

 

One thing I did learn in my search, is keeping good notes. 

 

I discovered many after-market suspension components do not meet OEM weight ratings.  Simply put, they are designed for off-roading performance trucks/vehicles without the heavy payload. 

 

Because of the weight of the diesel engine, the camper, winch bumper and winch, 2 labs, humans and all of our stuff, I ended up having a California company design/manufacture rear spring packs based on my loadout. 

 

I contacted Bilstein and received data for their Super Duty leveling kit.  Rating exceeded OEM specs and provided a weight margin with the added weight of the steel Trail Ready bumper and Warn 16.5Ti winch with synthetic rope.  I did opt for this winch setup to save on weight.

 

A progressive spring pack designed for your planned loadout will make your driving experience so much more pleasurable, not to mention off-tarmac ride. 

 

Many ways to setup your new truck.

 

I have not researched the Super Duty Upfitter's Manual from Ford in the last year or so I do not know what is offered for the 2020.

 

Perhaps Ford is now offering upgraded components from the factory equal in performance to those from the big name off-road vendors.  It would be nice if you could order a truck from Ford with those components.

Edited by Advmoto18, 21 March 2019 - 12:46 PM.

[ardvark]

Man I have the biggest heaviest Fab Fours you can get on the front and my front end will still beat you up. I have my CAT slips and putting the truck camper on the truck and fully loaded adds a little to the front end so I am guessing the added weight is much less than a plow, but it does make for a better ride. Unloaded forget it!

[klahanie]

Many ways to setup your new truck.

 

True this. Do over I'd prob keep the orig front springs and add a coil spacer to give more compression travel to the bump stops. That was the advice I was given but I didn't take it, in part because of my concern at that time, that the lift might put the front suspension geometry out of the mfr's design range.

 

And as I recall the aftermarket springs included a "leveling lift" so that was not ideal for me.

 

Progressive rate has appeal, I just was unsure how the transition point for the sping offered would perform when the vehicle package was potentialy so variable.

 

Smart to inquire about the aftermarket spring rating. Don't know if Ford uses the same method of measuring but at least they give a rating of sorts for each of the springs used through out the superduty line which helps for making changes. I think it's prob the same old spring tech as before tho.

 

 

Man I have the biggest heaviest Fab Fours you can get on the front and my front end will still beat you up. I have my CAT slips and putting the truck camper on the truck and fully loaded adds a little to the front end so I am guessing the added weight is much less than a plow, but it does make for a better ride. Unloaded forget it!

 

Trucks are expensive, so it's natural we want a good ride for the money. And times have changed expectations, that's understandable. I guess a good rule is lowest spring rate to do the job - OP take note. Overkill here and it's gonna hurt more than just the pocket book ! Long travel would prob help, too bad the trucks are already so tall.

 

I don't know what a plow weighs but I know any decent load out front of the bumper can really hammer the front end, esp off highway. Because I'm not always careful there, I accept a firmer ride up front.

 

Agree, usually most of the camper weight goes on the rear axle. Ford's application guide for the OPs wheelbase states for a water level load the front axle takes only 2.9% of the payload. Without specific added weight up front, I not sure there's much value generally, in having a stiffer spring. Only thing I wonder about tho, is dynamic weight transfer, rear to front, esp for a camper with a large or heavy cabover.

 

Unloaded, yeah, that's why we want a Subaru !

Edited by klahanie, 21 March 2019 - 05:30 PM.

[Advmoto18]

Sadly, Old Man Emu does not make a spring kit (F/R) for modern Super Duties.

 

I had the F-350 OME full suspension package with overload spring on my 2003 F-250.  The ride improvement was stunning.  Even with nothing in the bed, the ride was dramatically improved over OEM.  the overload spring only comes into play when a 1000+ payload was in the bed, otherwise it had no perceivable affect on the ride.

 

I have no idea why OME doesn't offer product for modern Super Duties.  I'd have bought those products if available.

[Ace!]

OME offers springs at least through MY2017 for Super Duty trucks.

[Advmoto18]

OME offers springs at least through MY2017 for Super Duty trucks.

Indeed, OME only offers suspension products through the steel body years...2016.  Nothing for the modern beer can (AL) body trucks as of yet.

 

Plus, for 2011-16 MY, you only have a choice of 3" or 4" lift kits.  I installed a 2" OME on my 2003.  It didn't give the impression the truck was lifted which was my goal.  When lifting above 2", one can run into geometry issues with Super Duty steering and drivetrain.

 

When going above 2", I think Carli offers some of the best product/components addressing lift issues, but, you lose payload capacity.

 

I don't want the appearance of a lifted truck, but gaining a couple inches of wheel clearance for off-chamber encounters would be nice.  And more importantly, eliminating the factory installed block between the rear axle and leaf springs.  Seems to me there is a market for such products but most after-market suspension companies focus on 2"+ height gains.  Not my desire for my truck.

 

With these heavy trucks/camper, one most pay particular attention to one's line on a trail (such as the "Top of the World" trail near Moab).  With the factory blocks over the rear axle, axle wrap can be a significant issue.  

Edited by Advmoto18, 22 March 2019 - 12:50 PM.

[Ace!]

OME offers springs through MY2017, not 2016.  They offer three different front springs, offering 2" or 3" or 4" (45mm, 75mm, 100mm) lift heights (for MY2011-2017).  They offer one spring for the rear, 3" (splitting the baby of the front height) to be used either alone, or with an overload depending on whether the weight is carried full-time.

Edited by Ace!, 22 March 2019 - 05:30 PM.

[LosAngeles]

Hi all  - a related question:

 

If a city has a maximum curb weight (as defined in the city’s MOTOR VEHICLE REGULATIONS IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS) of 8,000 lbs wet

 

How will I stand with a current Ford F350, biggest longest version, with an approx 2,500 lb (wet) Pop Up camper - always on board. Daily driver. 

 

In other words - how would my rig relate to an 8,000 curb weight, the limit for residential vehicles in tat city? 

 

Also in other words - would the (always mounted, daily driver) pop up camper’s weight count towards my curb weight? (in the eyes of the city)

 

the exact wording in bylaw is :

 

Any motor vehicle having a curb weight of eight thousand (8,000) pounds or greater. For the purposes of this Section, "curb weight" is defined as the weight of a motor vehicle with standard equipment, fuel, oil, and coolant;

 

thanks!  :-)