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who uses Fog lights? / Hella 500 / OEM connector->F350


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#31 Vic Harder

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:31 AM



Almost everything in that linked article supports what I said.

Say what? 

"That's the key point: fog lamps are meant to be used in heavy fog, rain, or snow to help the driver see the edges of the road close to the car so s/he can safely make progress through foul weather at very low speeds." [emphasis mine]

 

I'm not sure we are talking apples to apples.  I think we agree with Daniel Stern that almost ALL OEM and aftermarket lights to not do what fog lights are designed to do.  Where we diverge - I think - is in accepting this.  Accepting it means that yeah, the most good they can do is help other see you. And Daniel Stern suggest we DO NOT use them for this purpose, since it means we are just blinding everyone else.

 

I don't accept this standard, and will run illegally if necessary to see better in the fog, when driving at below 20 mph.  

 

BTW, if your fogs are mounted above the bumper, I think they are too high.  I have mine hanging below the bumper, as close to the ground as I can get them, and still aimed down to keep the light 20 to 30 ft from the front of the car/truck.

 

Now, REAR mounted fog lights (European standard items) DO help others to see you better.


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#32 Adventurer

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:40 PM

We don't have to agree, but the article is much more than that.  If you think outside the box, what does the data show, we probably agree on more than you think.

 

"Many of today's vehicles have front fog lamps. What good are they? The quick and correct 2-word answer: Not much! Even good fog lamps, which are relatively rare, are of very limited use to most drivers."

 

"As you can see, neither type of fog lamps by themselves provided adequate light..."

 

"The important thing to understand here is that even fog lamps conforming to the newest, most stringent performance requirements give only very minimal improvement in actual seeing ability—and the rating differences, if subjected to rigorous analysis, would likely not be statistically significant."

 

"Extremely high-performing fog lamps are quite rare, but they do exist. And under abnormal driving conditions (very thick fog, very heavy snow) they can be of some help."

 

"And as explicated in dense scientific detail in this study(pdf), it just doesn't make anything better—though there is the potential for a real safety improvement by using a red rear fog lamp."

 

"Almost all factory-installed or dealer-optional fog lamps, and a great many aftermarket units, are essentially useless for any purpose, especially for extremely demanding poor-weather driving."

 

"In most driving situations, fog lamps are neither useful nor necessary..."

 

 

 

The study supports, fog lights don't help the driver, in almost all conditions.  If you read, which you may have, the study that this article is based, fog lights provide comfort to the driver, but not a driving advantage.  In fact, the study suggests high beams may be the most effective, that although there is glare, it does help in identifying objects sooner than low or fog-beams.  There are few accidents related to fog; however, those accidents that occur happen more frequently with other vehicles (as opposed to driving off the road or single-vehicle accidents).  Since, as the study suggests, fog lights are only effective out to 25 - 30 feet, they have little to no impact on driving, in almost any conditions.  Again, the study suggests they provide comfort for the driver, but no driving benefit.  So, if fog lights don't help the driver, even in fog, they do something else.

 

What the study also supports, and why I have mine mounted the way I do, is they are only beneficial while driving less than 25mph.  I have mine mounted such that on a single or two-lane dirt road they project light only slightly further than my speed allows me to see (much of the reason they are all but useless on road).  They are illuminating the sides of the road as much as they are in front of me.  I then also have driving lights mounted that project slightly further, but not much farther than I can reasonably drive at 45mph.  Most people have their lights aimed up and out, but will never be driving 100mph in Baja, so they aren't very useful, or they have fog lights and overrun them because they think they should serve as driving lights while using them in the wrong conditions.

 

Anyway, we don't have to agree on the purpose of fog lights.  Maybe we'll just agree that they aren't very effective when used by most people in most conditions, and they tend to blind oncoming drivers; regardless of what we consider to be the definition of "effective".


Edited by Adventurer, 01 December 2019 - 06:01 PM.

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#33 ntsqd

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:58 PM

If the fog lights are above the bumper then the only thing that they can do is make it easier for others to see you. That mounting location totally defeats the actual intended use. I killed one of the lights on my old Ranchero with a parking kerb. That is how low those were mounted.

 

I invite the myopic authors of that study to drive in that fog that I encountered using lights that were properly chosen and mounted. I am positive that a revision would be issued shortly thereafter.

 

Once past the now vintage 5.0 GT Mustangs that had real Marchal fog lights in their air dams I have yet to see any OEM lights deserving of being called "fog lights". They're best labeled "on-coming driver annoyance lights" and I'm sure that some will have far more derogatory names for them.


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Thom

Where does that road go?

#34 Vic Harder

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:51 AM

We don't have to agree, but the article is much more than that.  If you think outside the box, what does the data show, we probably agree on more than you think.

 

Anyway, we don't have to agree on the purpose of fog lights.  Maybe we'll just agree that they aren't very effective when used by most people in most conditions, and they tend to blind oncoming drivers; regardless of what we consider to be the definition of "effective".

Agreed!


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#35 craig333

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:13 AM

I know mine, they certainly weren't cheap, have a nice sharp cutoff to avoid blinding anyone. I got the yellow tinted bulbs, not because that helps me see but so others see me. Interesting that I don't see those bulbs on rallylights anymore.


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#36 ntsqd

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:42 PM

I think some gumberment entity must have visited rallylights and scared them badly. I tried to order something from them a while back and got such a run-around over the legality of how I planned to use them that I've sworn completely off of ordering anything from them ever again. Oddly, the same thing happened with Stern about 6 months prior to that. Both are easy sources, but they're not the only sources. I buy elsewhere.


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Thom

Where does that road go?

#37 oldhotrod

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 05:32 AM

Factory fog lights are cheap annoying decorations at best...property installed, properly designed quality fog lights cannot be compared to cheap oe fog lights.
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