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Should FWC campers be marketed towards Tacomas?

FWC tacoma toyota payload

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#11 57Pan

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Posted 28 August 2022 - 09:00 PM

Totally agree with Marmot. I’ve had my ATC Bobcat on my 05 Tacoma extended cab for 4 years and it works great.
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#12 BlueSky

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Posted 29 August 2022 - 02:47 AM

Those pesky marketing people. 


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#13 Scott81621

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Posted 29 August 2022 - 02:56 PM

Same here. I have a 2018 Fleet on a 2020 Tacoma long bed. Only improvements are air bags and E rated tires. 150,000 miles on the setup so far and no issue or worries!
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#14 Zoomad

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Posted 01 September 2022 - 03:59 AM

Similar issues come up when fitting any camper to a Raptor or Power Wagon that have reduced capacities due to the specialized off road suspensions on them.   Does that stop people from putting them on there?   Nope.  I've personally wheeled with a couple of guys running FWC units in Power Wagons.   I'm not sure what adjustments were made to address the added weight, but they sure didn't seem to have any issues.  

 

Here's an example of the manufacturer just flat out avoiding the issue to cover liability.   Taken from a 1991 K5 with a FWC Blazer camper.   The ironic point is just a mere 14 years earlier GM was selling a MUCH heavier and larger camper on the same K5 platform.  

 

50872370216_9387cd687c_b.jpg

 

 

The GVWR and payload numbers are probably set by engineers and then the value is revised by the legal staff to limit liability.  I have no way to prove that but my time within GM and the way they behave in the lawsuit happy environment is consistent.  

 

It's not to say to completely disregard the factory ratings, but to understand what they are and adjust accordingly if you add a camper.  Getting a weight slip on the truck with and without the camper is very helpful to know where you sit against the numbers.  


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#15 TacomaAustin

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Posted 01 September 2022 - 01:54 PM

I've been silent on this topic, but in my case a wonderful base model 2015 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 equipped with a 2.7 liter four and 5 speed manual was not enough truck in my opinion to pull an ATC Bobcat up serious inclines at highway speeds. 

 

The suspension of the Tacoma which had an add-a-leaf and ride rite air bags was not the issue.  The problem was the lack of torque at 2,000 to 2,500'ish rpm range.  My solution to having only 4 cylinders was to use 4th gear when at highway speeds and downshift in 3rd on serious inclines to keep the engine rpm at its peak torque range of 3500 rpm.  Fuel mileage plummeted.

 

I am now the proud owner of an elderly 86 year old gentleman's 2005 Toyota Tundra Access Cab with an impressive amount of grunt for its size 4.7 liter V8. 


Edited by TacomaAustin, 01 September 2022 - 01:58 PM.

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Andrew in Austin, TX


#16 Casa Escarlata Robles Too

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Posted 01 September 2022 - 08:38 PM

I had that similar issue with my Bobcat mounted on a Ford Ranger with the smaller V6.

Soulation as per Marty at ATC was look for a nice 1st gen Tundra.

For 11 years now the 2002 AC Cab Tundra has more then fulfilled our needs.

 

Enjoy your "new" Tundra.

Frank


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2002 Tundra AC TRD 4WD Limited 2009 ATC Bobcat loaded http://sharychic.blogspot.com/


#17 TacomaAustin

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Posted 11 September 2022 - 01:06 PM

Drifting back to a mid-sized Tacoma - in the past 5 years, as opposed to a self contained slide-in pop up, a plethora of pop up canopy shells have entered the market that weigh in at less than 500 lbs.   Granted that's a dry weight, with no accoutrements or gear.  The FWC Project M is one example.


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Andrew in Austin, TX


#18 kmcintyre

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Posted 12 September 2022 - 01:59 PM

People make mistakes unintentionally and should not be judged for that. Most are not technical and when you bring up a topic such as GVWR and how it relates directly to your suspension, cooling, braking package, etc. and the thousands of hours of testing that has taken place, they become disconnected. That's fine.

 

Me, I'm a technical guy as are most all my close friends. In my opinion it is somewhat irresponsible to run a vehicle full time near, or over, GVWR. Unless engineered otherwise, machines with variability enjoy being operated in the middle of their range. That applies to optical, electrical, mechanical, etc. When I was building my package I estimated I would sit wet around 1,500-2,000 pounds so I ordered a truck with double that GVWR, so my load would sit right in the middle.

 

I am not here to judge although I have no hesitation in sharing "best practices."

 

I totally agree.  I get why people want to use 1/2 ton trucks; I did it for > 10 years but I had a v8, etc.  Always was worried about brakes, etc. and even w/ E rated tires, airbags, etc. that's still a lot of weight.


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Boise, ID

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2023 FWC Flatbed Hawk


#19 Yonder37

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 10:09 PM

Four Wheel Camper tells you up front that anything less than a 3/4-ton truck normally requires suspension work:

 

"Some trucks will require suspension upgrades. These include all mini trucks and most all 1/2 ton trucks. The rear suspension upgrade can be over load springs, helper springs, or a set of airbags (or any equivalent). Basic “air shocks”are NOT recommended as they are not designed to be used as a rear suspension upgrade. They cannot handle a camper weight and can quickly fail. Your factory representative will advise you in detail regarding the best upgrade for your particular truck."

 

https://fourwheelcam...-installation/ 

 

I got a quote for a Hawk camper at the factory. Did not have a truck at that time, told them I was considering an F-150. The rep immediately recommended the heavy-duty payload package. This adds heavier springs and D-rated tires, boosting payload to roughly the 2600-3000 pound range, depending on configuration. So I ordered one from Ford. The rep also recommended air bags, so will add those after the truck arrives (which unfortunately may take 6-8 months).

 

When I visited the factory, I was coming back from vacation in a Tacoma with a Fleet camper that I rented from Outdoorsy. The owner had put it on a Tacoma with airbags but without heavier springs, and it was definitely sagging in the rear. The rep said he saw it in the parking lot and was shaking his head. 


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#20 Weissenheimer

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Posted 13 October 2022 - 04:11 PM

Another testament of a 1/4 ton truck doing 1 ton things, lol.  I have an 05 Tacoma short bed with a fully loaded Swift.  I have been all over the map about the GVWR argument.  I chose the hard way and kept the Tacoma/had to do the upgrades. I don't necessarily regret it, my friends with F150s and FWCs still needed to do bags just like me!  I just think deep down it would be nice to afford myself the extra power, handling, potential hauling a small trailer with camper ability, etc. I am at 16 months with this setup and would like to make it to 24 before I sell out and go full size.  The tacoma is doing great however I have been through several upgrades to get it to where i felt good.  Like I said I don't necessarily regret it.  It was just a lot of work!! The short bed has all of physics against it (talking about where the weight sits on this chasis, see stats below):

 

Suspension:

Front suspension remained stock springs and bilstein 5100s

Setup 1: C range K02s. Installed bags on top of the stock springs plus (add a leaf the truck came with)

Setup 2: Installed Dobinsons 112 extra HD leafs with bags, handles like a dream loaded.  Nightmare unloaded

Setup 3: Removed a leaf and kept the bags, happy medium loaded or unloaded.

Setup 4: Needed tires and went with Toyo ATIII E range (lightest/most compliant E range from my research and proved true).  Perfect for a 1/4 ton not-so-heavy truck.  My truck came with E range K02s and I didn't realize how much the truck struggled with those until I got the Cs.  Between K02 Cs and Toyo Es my MPGs and overall truck feel is the same!

 

Brakes: 

This probably wouldn't be an issue with most other 1/4 trucks.  Related to the early year 2nd gens, the brakes are BAD.  Replaced everything since i was due anyway, STILL bad.  I ended up doing a mod I never would have thought of before, retrofit a 2010 Tundra brake booster.  Now I have the bite (and peace of mind) I was looking for.

 

Power: 

Leaves something to be desired but It works.  But I do find myself helping her out a bit and selecting gears.  I try to be careful with overdrive and lugging it too much.  Wish I had a tow haul mode because I think that would make a world of a difference.  I really think the power numbers are sufficient, I am just held back by transmission tuning.

 

Stats: 

Empty truck Curb weight= 4640

Front axle= 2520

Rear axle=2120

 

Loaded with FWC and gear curb weight= 6220

Front axle=2460

Rear axle=3760

 

-Note, the short bed issues!  Loaded with the camper, weight is REMOVED from the front axle, not ideal.  This means a majority of the load is cantilevered off the rear half of the bed.  Which may or may not be a surprise.

-Note, the 1/4 ton issues!  I am over my rear axle rating by 650 and GVWR 770

 

So yeah, it works, and despite all the content online I have not seen any catastrophic reports of failure with these particular setups.  I am going to keep running it for now anyway.  Will post pics later


Edited by Weissenheimer, 13 October 2022 - 04:16 PM.

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