48 replies to this topic

[whizbang]

I had a SurePower charger/isolater and it worked great.  If your isn't charging, there is a problem somewhere.

 

Increasing the wire to 6 gauge is a good start and might just fix things.

 

Good Luck.

[SB_Surf]

I found this Separator 1314A Spec dated 2011. Pls use for ref only as it may not be current, but it does give some additional insight on its design.

 

The operational temp is limited to -28 to 48 degC due to the relay.

 

Note that the relay activation current is significant at 0.75A (9W).

 

 

Attached Files

•  Battery Separator1314A spec.pdf   256.16K   264 downloads

[Ethergore]

 
Note that the relay activation current is significant at 0.75A (9W).

Can you explain why this is significant? Does that mean it gives 0.75 amps of resistance or does it just have to over come the resistance before the curcuit is closed? Or neither?

[SB_Surf]

0.75A is the relay coil current to close the relay contacts and connect the batteries together over the entire operating temperature.

[Ethergore]

0.75A is the relay coil current to close the relay contacts and connect the batteries together over the entire operating temperature.

Thanks. I can't imagine not getting at least 0.75 amp to the separator. Seems much more likely to be voltage related.

[ntsqd]

My understanding of dual sense Automatic Charge Relays (as made by BEP Marine anyway) is that they close when either battery goes above some voltage threshold indicating a charging condition at that battery. Then when the total system voltage drops to that of fully charged battery (or less), indicating no more charging, it will disconnect.

 

I put the ACR/VSR in the camper next to it's battery box. 80A breaker at each battery bank. 6 gauge cables make the connection. Used an Anderson connector for ease of disconnection for removing the camper. One half of that is bolted to the inner bedside.

 

Current VSR is a single sensing model. Even prior to adding solar never had a charging problem unless the vehicle sat for an extended period of time. Now with the solar in place even sitting for a while isn't an issue.

Edited by ntsqd, 14 August 2015 - 02:30 AM.

[DavidO]

My 2012 Hawk has a 110 fridge and I got it with the 85 watt factory solar. It never seemed to charge well. Adding to the IOTA a Q4 plug vastly improved charging when plugged in to 110. Traveling down the road for hours or leaving it parked in the sun didn't give it the charging it needed in the winter let alone in the summer. First I installed larger batteries, that helped a bit as I could stay out a day longer but it added a problem of taking even longer to get back to fully charged. I next installed a Tri-metric battery monitor which was a great help as now I could see exactly how each component effected my charging. The 85 watt solar panel only put out enough power to just run the fridge but not enough to run the fridge and charge the batteries. I knew that I needed a larger solar array, I ended up with a 160 watt grape solar panel  and a SunSaver MPPT. A PWM controller probably would have been fine. This only added 9 pounds more to my roof.

 

The charging from the truck was what I call weak at best, I was only getting to the batteries 13 or 14 AMPs if the fridge was running and it usually was during the summer. At 13 amps I'm only getting 52amp into the battery after 4 hours of driving, NOT ENOUGH. I wondered if it was my Alternator or voltage regulator or the wire gauge from my truck to the camper? To see if it was the truck I took a 4 gauge jumper cable and hooked the truck battery to the shunt on the Tri-metric and the camper battery positive. WOW 55 AMPs. From this I learned that my truck was putting all the juice I needed, I just needed a better system to get it into the camper batteries.

 

I bought 25 feet each of a red and black 6 gauge wire. I also bought a hydraulic wire crimping tool at Harbor Freight, you must have good connections. On each end of the positive wire I put in Maxi Fuse Holders which came wired into 6 gauge wire and 60 AMP Maxi fuses. For plugging the camper and truck together I used a Marinco 12VCP6 trolling receptacle and plug That was the only trolling plug that could take a wire as large as 6 gauge (could have used Anderson plug). I then rewired the plug to camper with the same 6 gauge wire.

 

When I thought about how I was going to control the switching on and off the power it made my head hurt. Should I put a solenoid in the engine compartment with a switch in the cab, should I put in a perko switch in the camper? When I looked at the paper work for the Sure Power battery separator I found that not only was the separator rated to handle 100Amps but also the installation said to use 6 gauge wire for wire lengths from 10 to 20 feet. No wonder the 10 gauge wire from the factory wasn't giving the charge I thought I should be getting. So I went ahead and used the Sure power separator with 6 guage wire going to the battery. One note here is be sure to leave the factory circuit breaker protecting the wire to your fuse box.

 

After doing the solar upgrade and the rewiring of the truck to camper my system now works great. I haven't seen my system under 82% charged and a charged battery is a happy battery. One thing to note here is that after a few minutes of charging the amps going into my batteries drops(as expected) I get about 28 amps charging after 5 minutes.

[Ronanmd1]

DavidO - You are bang on with your diagnosis and solution.  I spent a few hours replacing the factory 10 gauge wire with 4 gauge (it was easier to find 4 gauge than 6 locally).  Essentially I just replaced all the wires from the engine battery back to the isolator.  I used an Anderson connector at the box to replace the smaller factory plug.  It was a bit tight running the wires inside the camper but with a bit of filing I was able to make it work in its existing location.  I left an extra foot of length at either end in case I ended up needing to move the isolator.

 

I don't have a trimetric monitor, so I decided to give it a 'real world' trial.  I ran the camper batteries down to various voltages (as low as 11.6 V).  Regardless of the voltage at the camper batteries the truck charging system (180 amp alternator) had no problems sending enough amps back to the camper through the 4 gauge.  The voltage across the isolator generally stayed above 13.1 - 13.4 regardless of how drained the camper batteries were.  This test was done with the fridge powered on since that is typically the case when I am on the road.

 

So far, It looks like the isolator works fine if left mounted in the camper.  The 10 gauge wire is simply too small across that length (about 20 - 25ft) to provide enough amperage to avoid the associated voltage drop once the 2 deep cycle batteries start to charge and pull huge amperage.  Dropping the resistance from the charging system by increasing the gauge of wire to 4 gauge (6 would likely work as well) seems to have fixed the problem.

 

Next up - add another 100W solar panel to the existing 85 W panel on the roof to help me stay charged when camping for a few days without driving.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.  It is really appreciated.

 

Jason

[Ethergore]

Thanks DavidO and Ronanmd1. This is great advice. I have a couple questions.

David-How much did you pay for the Marineco plug. I can't find it for less than $50! Also, did you notice its only rated for 40 amps? You said you pull more than that.

Ronanmd1- Which anderson connector did you use and how much? Also, will it fit 0 gauge and can I get zero gauge into the camper? I have it on hand even tho it is probably over kill.

Thanks

[smlobx]

This is one of the best threads I've read in a while.
Like some others I'm a nobe when it comes to all things electrical and I've learned a lot reading this thread.
Where are you guys finding the 4 or 6 gauge wire and what type of wire are you buying?
Thanks.