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Mounting Hallmark Guanella on Dodge Ram 2500 short bed **Project**


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#1 DoGMAtix

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 08:48 PM

We just picked up a used 08 Hallmark Guanella for our 2006 Dodge CTD 2500 short bed, and had it mounted at Hallmark. We made it clear that our intent was to drive on rugged dirt roads, and knowing this they installed it as shown in the photos. The tiedowns are a Happijac frame-mounted system (the FT-DR2, shown here: http://happijac.com/tie-downs.html) and the turnbuckles are simple ones made of aluminum, the kind you can pick up at your corner hardware store. They're attached to chains which the folks at Hallmark extended with open links (we asked for screwdown quick links but were told they didn't have any in the shop and the open links were every bit as strong). We were instructed to keep the front turnbuckles as tight as possible, and leave the rears with a bit of give (not sure that you can really have give in a rigid system, minus the open links which unfortunately did turn out to have give, but only in one direction).

Here are some photos of our setup:

1) Freshly installed - after about 20 miles of highway driving from the factory. Awesome!...or at least so far...

2) Front turnbuckle and chain (note open link which has begun to stretch out - this will come back to haunt us further down the road; also note the way the tiedown is mounted to the jack frame, as opposed to some other mounting systems where the front tiedown is attached to a bracket further back on the underside of the camper).

3) Rear tiedown, turnbuckle and chain (that's a pool noodle around the chain to protect the truck from chain slap; again, note open links which we bypassed later in the trip to avoid chain failure).

 

We headed down the road toward home (Albuquerque), via a scenic detour over a relatively tame dirt road between Vail and Leadville (over Crooked Creek and Hagerman Passes).

 

I'll continue in the next post so I can continue to upload photos as I go along without going over the KB limit per post.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Side view camper fresh install.jpg
  • Front turnbuckle and chain.jpg
  • Rear tiedown and turnbuckle.jpg

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2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L CTD short bed quad cab, 2008 Hallmark Guanella


#2 DoGMAtix

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 09:18 PM

I should also mention here that the guy we bought the camper from had it mounted on a Ford F250 short bed, which has a slightly longer bed and slightly higher side rails on the box. The extra height of the rails presumably necessitated installation of the extra inch-thick strip of wood (painted black) on top of the 2x4's mounted to the underside of the camper (see photo). Unfortunately, the extra bed length of the Ford resulted in placement of the rearmost 2x4 right at the edge of our Dodge bed.

 

As we bumped along the dirt road, the rubber mat under the camper bunched up forward, and the camper inched back so the rearmost 2x4 wedged itself off the rear edge of the bed.

This caused the camper to tip up slightly in front. Even when we repositioned the camper when we camped the first night it came off again soon afterward.

 

Photos:

1) Wood framing attached to the underside of the camper where it slipped backward and wedged off the truck bed. Note the black strip of 1-by attached to the 2x4 for extra clearance over the side rails.

2) Angle of front tiedowns, which does not exert any force to keep the camper from sliding back in the bed, particularly when going uphill.

3) Tilt of camper on truck following travel on not-very-rugged dirt roads.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Camper undermount.jpg
  • Front tiedown angle.jpg
  • Camper tilt.jpg

Edited by DoGMAtix, 09 September 2015 - 10:50 PM.

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2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L CTD short bed quad cab, 2008 Hallmark Guanella


#3 DoGMAtix

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 09:47 PM

Now we're home in Albuquerque, with presumably no irreparable damage done. We haven't pulled the truck off the camper yet because we're just finishing a car port which currently just has loose dirt under it. We should get to that within a few days.

However, we're pretty sure about a few things at this point.

1) The turnbuckle system should be upgraded. It looks like Torklift suggests using this system on frame-mounted tiedowns: http://www.torklift....les/anchorguard

See photo below copied from their web site.

2) The rearmost 2x4 rib under the camper should be moved forward so it sits on the bed and can't wedge off the back end.

 

Also, it seems like the lack of pull in a forward direction may be a problem we'll have to continue to contend with unless the front tiedown point on the camper is moved back so the turnbuckle can keep forward pressure on the camper. We could mount another bracket to the edge of the underside of the camper on each side, like the rear tiedowns. The only real concern with that is whether the brackets would be strong enough to withstand the force of rugged dirt road driving. The rear brackets were already pulled away from the camper at the outside screws (see photo below) when we had the camper mounted, but the two bolts further back in are solidly attached; the folks at Hallmark said not to worry about the outer screws, the brackets wouldn't fail. I guess I'm learning to worry when I hear the words, "don't worry." If we attach new brackets, should we be doing it differently so the outer screws don't give?

 

Another thought: Perhaps we need to factor in a little bit of give in the system and I shouldn't be thinking in this zero-tolerance mode. After all, any force on a rigid system will be a shock load, and that's probably the main reason one of our open chain links blew, and one of our turnbuckle hooks bent out to a right angle (we improvised temporary fixes with tie-down straps and pool noodles until we got to a hardware store in Leadville where we bought quick links and a new turnbuckle). I'm guessing the spring-loaded/ cushioned turnbuckles made for attaching campers are supposed to allow for a little bit of sliding with up/down hills and bumps, but probably not 2 inches of back and forth (which is what it probably took to get the 2x4 under our camper pushed off the back end of the bed).

 

In any case, I'm inclined to do something about the angle of the front tiedown, not just from the standpoint of

wanting some front-directional pull, but also because the current measurement between attachment points in the front is about 15 inches, which is shorter than the minimum distance of adjustment for the Torklift  Anchorguard turnbuckles. I suppose we could get some custom-made Fastguns that can bridge a shorter distance, but I'm less inclined to do that.

 

Does anyone have any advice for us at this point? Do we really need to have frontward-directional pull to keep our camper from sliding backward in the bed? Since the front tiedowns seem to be holding up very well, we're thinking maybe we'll put a heavy duty quick link into the front lower tiedown attachment point so we can attach a second set of mounting brackets further back on the camper in addition to the existing attachments. That would build redundancy into the system and ensure that whatever happens we won't lose the camper, while doing a better job of keeping it from sliding back. Is this overkill?

 

Photos:

1) Torklift Anchorguard turnbuckle mounted to front tiedown (photo taken from Torklift's web site - this is NOT the way our truck is currently tied down). Note the angle which exerts forward force against the camper's tendency to slide backward when going uphill

2) Brackets tying down the rear of the camper (located on edge of underside of camper) - note how the outer screws have pulled part-way out but the bolts are in solid.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Torklift AnchorGuard front turnbuckle.jpg
  • Rear tiedown bracket.jpg

Edited by DoGMAtix, 09 September 2015 - 11:01 PM.

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2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L CTD short bed quad cab, 2008 Hallmark Guanella


#4 snuffy

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 10:51 PM

all i can say is wow,  i think that the front setup is good to go but i will  tell you what i have learned over the years  the happyjack rear tie downs on the rear bumper are not good for that camper and truck imo..  they just dont  work well on newer trucks with modern bumpers..  if it were my setup i would invest in a set of torklift for the rear and fastguns   you need some give on the rear turnbuckles too.  that maybe why the brackets bent like that    with the support under the camper moved and the right rear turnbuckle you should be fine   


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#5 FlyTime

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:30 AM

I bought the same rig, an '08 Guanella, this summer.  haven't had a chance to put it through the paces, but I did put torklift frame-mounted tie downs and will use the fast guns.  truck is GMC 2500 short bed. 

 

yeah., Don't Worry = Worry....  heck at least they talked to you at the Hallmark shop!  whatever  was the deal with the cabover sag?

 

good luck. let us know how it goes


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#6 Bad Habit

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:30 AM

Yeah, the rear tie downs should be changed out, the happijak ones on the bumper probably won't last long.  Those rear bumpers are made out beer cans these days. 

 

Seems the biggest valid complaints about Hallmark is how they attach the campers to the trucks.  Mine (F350/ K2) uses the Happijak front, then Torklift in the back.  Those slide into the frame of the factory receiver hitch.  They stick out a bit, and down but don't seem to get into harms way (so far at least). 

 

At the front, they attached a plate on the jack bracket that gives just a little more distance so i can use the Torklift AnchorGuard Derringer quick turnbuckles.  They are shortened as much as they can be (all it is is 1/2" threaded rod between the handle and the spring section).  It is pretty straight up and down though and doesn't create much, if any at all, forward pull.

 

With the rears, I orient the tie down so it faces forward (don't have a picture to help explain, in this picture from Torklift it is oriented back).  This makes me fell at least like there's not as much pull on the camper backwards, it ends up also being pretty straight up and down.springloadxlm.jpg

 

 

Sounds like some work is in order for the bottom, either taking off the extra hgt spacing pieces, or by making it consistent across the whole bottom so it sits flat no matter if it slides and moves.

 

Everything has to give somewhere, it just a matter of how much, and where you want it to.  Have the sprung turnbuckles allows you to regulate that a little.  According to Torklift, if you use the Derringers, the sprung ones in the front, the "solid" ones in the back.  After I redid mine that way, no problems.

 

JR


Edited by Bad Habit, 10 September 2015 - 02:30 AM.

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#7 DoGMAtix

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 03:29 PM

Just got off the phone with Torklift and the tech I spoke with seemed very knowledgeable and didn't seem to be trying to push me to buy anything I don't need (they don't sell directly to consumers so he wouldn't stand to gain anything from that). His recommendation for rugged terrain was at the very least to go with front frame mounted tiedowns and basically any turnbuckle with spring loading/dampening effect - I'd lean toward the "Spring Load XL" as a basic but fully functional model. He emphasized (as I've heard before) that the front is where most of the force is exerted. He said the back end is generally less of an issue, but he did say he wouldn't recommend trusting the bumper mount. If we go with a whole new system from Torklift (front and rear tiedowns and Spring Load XL's) it'll run us around $1000. Otherwise we can try replacing one element at a time and see what happens.

I expect that if we change out the whole system (and move the 2x4 on the bottom of the camper) the direction of pull won't be an issue.

It'll certainly be disappointing to have spent a totally unnecessary $1000 on parts and labor for installation at Hallmark, but better to get it right rather than risk ruining future trips and potentially even the camper.

Guess we'll scratch our heads for a while longer since we're stuck working for the next several weeks and won't get out camping anyway.


Edited by DoGMAtix, 10 September 2015 - 03:40 PM.

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2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L CTD short bed quad cab, 2008 Hallmark Guanella


#8 snuffy

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 03:52 PM

if you do go with torklift,  check out Gibs rv in Coos Bay Oregon  they have great price on torklift..


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#9 Bigfoot

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:49 AM

Our setup is similar to Bad Habit's. He summarized things well. 

 

The turnbuckle angle should not be a problem, especially if you go with a rear frame-mounted tiedown. 

 

I also have a plate on the jack bracket in front that moves the mounting point up enough for the AnchorGuard turnbuckle, but I still plan to convert to a frame-mounted tiedown. (With your truck a front frame-mounted tiedown might put the turnbuckle where it interferes with the fuel filler.) 

 

It looks like you may have a bed liner. If not, get a pad to protect the metal from the camper moving around slightly. 


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#10 DoGMAtix

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 04:16 AM

Bigfoot, are you planning to convert to a frame-mounted tiedown (the Torklift, I assume) because of bad experieces you've had with the box-mounted Happijac, or simply that you anticipate wanting the extra strength and peace of mind somewhere down the road?

I ask because one option we're still considering is to get AnchorGuard turnbuckles for our front Happijac box-mounted front system, and add frame-mounted Torklift tiedowns and Spring Load XLs or Fastguns for the rear. We could do the rest of the repair in a second stage if we still have concerns, in the mean time I think we can refrain from doing anything too crazy and see what happens.

 

FlyTime: cabover sag seems to be a non-issue.

Snuffy: Amazon.com seems to do a lot better on pricing than Gibs RV Coos Bay


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2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L CTD short bed quad cab, 2008 Hallmark Guanella





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