Obviously this is a sensitive topic. I think we can all agree that we want public access for our wanderings and camping. All I can add is do your own research about how to keep lands public, think critically about the information you read and your impact on the land, and - as Smoke reminds us - get involved and be heard during the decision making process!
Three new National Monuments in California
#51
Posted 27 February 2016 - 01:25 AM
'99 Ford Ranger XLT, '08 FWC Eagle
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“the clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.” - John Muir
#52
Posted 27 February 2016 - 01:39 AM
This forum is a wonderful respite from the political mess that is so hard to avoid, especially this year.
Paul
Another excellent point Paul.
I apologize in advance for the following run-on sentence.
Regardless of one's opinion about this issue, as one who has spent nearly 58 of 61 years in the southeast, allow me to state, be careful what you wish for because what you end up with is usually a far cry from the wish insofar as access to public lands is concerned.
I have enjoyed reading the commentary in this thread; it is has been enlightening, compassionate and free of innuendo.
Edited by Advmoto18, 27 February 2016 - 01:48 AM.
South Carolina Low Country.
#53
Posted 27 February 2016 - 02:43 AM
It can be a healthy discussion, when respect is maintained. I appreciate the sharing of reasonable opinions from the easterners and westerners. The population density and history of the two regions create very different perspectives, IMHO.
In our NorCal county we have a roadless area of glaciated peaks that were set aside under Clinton. I'm glad it's limited to horse, foot and cycling. With good access, the Grouse Ridge area often is a first time backpack destination. The dirt roads outside the roadless area swarm with OHV traffic all summer, including scofflaws who ride quads onto meadows. While It's true we can't four wheel into the area, we camp in the TNF adjacent and enjoy hiking into the alpine non-motorized area. Without these restrictions, there would be quad tracks everywhere, and unfortunately with vehicles comes the trash.
As SmokeCreek, HighZ and others have emphasized, public input during planning is critical. The National Forests have been required to develop roads/trails plans with public input. The result is that some roads are closed, and OHV trails are defined, limiting the ability to ride anywhere. We still find illegal tracks in Tahoe and Plumas NF from quads riding on single track routes that are off limits.
As our population increases, equipped with GPS, reliable off road vehicles and the darn internet, the impacts are increasing significantly. As much as I hate being restricted or limited, if we are to maintain the wild lands and their resident species, then we will need to accept limits on our access to areas that were previously unmanaged. This is a rapid change from how we all grew up, but think about how many thousands upon thousands are now wheeling out there where most of us have spent our last twenty to forty years enjoying the good old days.
I guess that's my message. The good old days were great because there were very few of us. Today we have a lot of city people with way too many toys, who have discovered our secret. The higher the population, the greater the need of a management plan. The devil is in the details, so get involved.
2021 RAM 3500 Crew 4x4, 6.4 hemi/8 speed trans with 4.10 gears, Timber Grove bags, Falken Wildpeak 35" tires.
OEV Aluma 6.75 flatbed, Bundutec Odyssey camper on order for 2024
For this year we're still using our 2008 FWC Hawk with victron DC-DC charger, 130w solar, MPPT controler
with 2000w inverter and external 120v output and 12v solar input with 100w portable solar. http://lighthawkphoto.com
#54
Posted 27 February 2016 - 04:32 AM
I appreciate we keep our political discussions directly related to land use and other wtw issues and don't get mired in the muck of unrelated topics. Plenty of sites if thats your thing. The issue with vandals and other ne'er do wells is a tough one. Such a small percentage of off road users can do so much damage. I'd like to see tread lightly etc, taught in school alongside environmental awareness. May not help but lets see if does.
Craig K6JGV_________________________ 2004 2500 CTD 4X4 FWC HAWK 1960 CJ5
#55
Posted 27 February 2016 - 04:56 AM
Yep, that was close, but as you guys have commented, load and clear, this is a good site; full of good WTW (least us not forget our eastern friends too) information, help and ideas and we need to keep it that way ! Now if we could keep those other people off our lands -or at least train them first so they don't mess it up!
Smoke
Edited by Smokecreek1, 27 February 2016 - 04:57 AM.
#56
Posted 27 February 2016 - 10:55 AM
I think this has been a healthy, helpful sharing of perspective, with a very helpful dose of boots-on-the-ground information from some with actual Gummint land management employment backgrounds.
Foy
#57
Posted 27 February 2016 - 04:06 PM
x2
2021 RAM 3500 Crew 4x4, 6.4 hemi/8 speed trans with 4.10 gears, Timber Grove bags, Falken Wildpeak 35" tires.
OEV Aluma 6.75 flatbed, Bundutec Odyssey camper on order for 2024
For this year we're still using our 2008 FWC Hawk with victron DC-DC charger, 130w solar, MPPT controler
with 2000w inverter and external 120v output and 12v solar input with 100w portable solar. http://lighthawkphoto.com
#58
Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:07 AM
"There are currently 137 miles of road open to the public in the Upper Nooksack corridor. Like the majority of roads in the USFS system, these were constructed long ago for timber harvest along with some mining activities. With the majority of the USFS lands in our area no longer open to timber harvest, the revenues to pay for road maintenance has not been available and the Forest Service’s budgets have been shrinking. On top of their declining budgets, the USFS budget has changed over the past 2 decades where their overall budget to fight fires has gone from 10-15% of their budget and today is more than 50% of their total budget goes towards fire fighting/suppression. This has affected the agency in many ways, from trail crew sizes, office closures, road maintenance, general staffing, etc.
Current:
With the heavy rains this winter, there are currently 4 roads washed out: Wells Creek, East Church, Glacier Creek (FS 36) and Canyon Creek (FS 31) Roads. As many know, Glacier Creek and Canyon Creek roads washed out 5+ years ago and were repaired in 2013.
In the winter: Both Glacier Creek and Canyon Creek road closures affect the snowmobile and backcountry skiing user groups as those are the only access points for snowmobilers along the Mt. Baker Highway.
In the summer: The Canyon Creek closure affects mountain bikers and motorcyclists (Canyon Ridge is the only trail open to bikes/ motorcycles along the 542) along with hiking and horse access to Damfino Lakes and Excelsior from this area. It’s worth noting that the WMBC scouted and proposed a large reroute to Canyon Ridge Trail 2+ years ago that would dramatically improve the trail on it’s Western end. The Glacier Creek road closure (via Heliotrope Ridge Trail) affects hikers and mountain climbers as it’s the primary northside route up Mt. Baker for several thousand mountain climbers.
USFS Budget:
Currently, the Forest Service has $12,000 (in total) allotted to maintain their roads for this year. Looking back at the 11 years, the USFS has averaged ~$70,000 per year to maintain roads. To do the bare-minimum level of maintenance on the existing roads, they estimate they’d need $148,000 annually – which would allow the clearing of culverts / drainage ditches along with some brushing and grading.
To repair major washouts like the 4 that have happened this year, the Forest Service taps into USDOT dollars via the Emergency Relief for Federally Owned roads (ERFO) program, but it first needs to determine that it was a considerable “weather event” to be and then it often takes a good deal of time to get those funds to repair these washouts."
My point is that it only takes $150,000 to repair and keep these roads open. This means a lot of business for our foothill communities. And, the opportunity for a variety of outdoor experiences. You can bet I will be contacting the agency to voice my opinion. We have traveled many of these roads. As a child, I picked blueberries and had picnics with my family. As an adult, I hiked those trails that the roads lead to. This is where I want my tax dollars to go. Not to foreign countries, not to a bloated military, not to representatives who feather their own nests. Sorry to get political but $150, 000 is mere tiny grains of sand in our national budget. If I were queen....
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