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How to Pick Solar Panel Watts and Battery Amp Hours

solar battery sizing picking panel

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#1 Jack

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 12:34 AM

Terrapin and some others have posted about electrical problems with their refrigerators (http://www.wanderthe...trical-sleuths/). I added some comments, but I also did not find much on WtW about how to pick solar panel wattage and battery amp hours, so I hope the following information is helpful.

 

To know what you need for a solar panel and batteries, you need to do some calculations based on where, when, and how long  you camp off the grid.

 

First, estimate the maximum current (amps, A) that you will use in 24 hours for all of your electrical devices.

 

The compressor refrigerator is usually spec’ed in watts/day.  Divide it by 12V (voltage). For example, if the refrigerator is spec’ed at 480 watts/day (W/day), then you will use, on average, 40Ah (amp hours) over one day.  This assumes that the interior of your camper is at a comfortable temperature of somewhere around 68’F.  Power consumption will be higher on hot summer days and less on cold winter nights. The interior of your camper will also increase or decrease your power use. Insulation and a fan over the condenser coils will help reduce power draw. Call it 40Ah per day for good measure – but if the refrigerator is well vented, if you have a fan to cool the coils whenever the compressor is on, if you are careful about minimizing door open time, and if it is reasonably well insulated, call it 30Ah per day.  

 

The next biggest item is your heater fan. I think the heater fan FWC is now installing draws about 2A. If you run the heater 4 hours a day, that’s 8Ah per day. Obviously, when it’s cold, you run the heater more and the refrigerator less. Vice-versa when it’s hot.

 

Interior LED lighting consumes no more than 0.5A and is on, say for 4 hours. That’s 2Ah per day.

 

Cell phone and tablet charging consume about 3A per charge per device – so 6Ah per day for you and your partner.

 

If you run a laptop for an hour, add another 5Ah per day.

 

As you can see, the compressor refrigerator is the elephant in the camper. If you have the 3-way refrigerator, you don’t have an elephant. Just NEVER leave the 3-Way on DC without the engine running or being on shore power  – that’s something like 5A or 120Ah per day (that’s a herd of elephants).

 

If you are really off the grid, you probably don’t have cell service, if what you read is on paper instead of a screen, if no computer, and if you are careful with the refrigerator, you can probably get by on 35Ah to 40Ah per day.

 

The next step is to size the batteries.

 

The number of draw down (discharge) cycles and the depth of the draw down determines battery life. The more cycles and the deeper the draw down, the shorter the battery life.  

 

As battery life decreases, it provides less power – essentially, it’s Ah rating decreases. A general rule of thumb is to draw down your battery no more than 30%. This is typically the sweet spot for the most power at the least cost. You can expect about 80% of capacity after about 3 or 4 years.

 

At 40Ah/day you want about a 125Ah battery system to get you through one day. But that’s a new battery, So start with a 155Ah battery system and 3 or 4 years later, it should still be able to provide about 125Ah/day.

 

But wait… you have a 160w solar panel to put power back into the battery! Just how much power is, literally, all over the map. See the following link for North America: https://en.wikipedia...-America-en.png

 

Between Portland OR and San Diego CA, the available annual power from the sun varies by a factor of two. If only rain could also produce electricity, we’d be so much better off in Portland.

 

To get more specific, go to the following link and scroll down two pages to the interactive graph. Since the FWC solar panels are flat on the roof, choose 60’ for Tilt Angle. Now move the Latitude slider to the latitude where you will be camping off the grid and then read the vertical scale number for the time of year for the green line. In Portland (45’ N) on January 1 (day 1), the annual average power from the sun is 4.0 kWh/m2/day. On July 1 (day 183), it is 9.0 kWh/m2/day. For a rough estimate of the power supplied by your 160w panel, multiply the kWh/m2/day by 150. For my Portland example, that’s 600Wh and 1350Wh per day, on average on Jan 1 and July 1, respectively. The factor of 150 takes into account the size (m2) of the 160W panel, it’s conversion efficiency (18%), charge controller and other sytem losses (5% to 15%) and conversion from kWh to Wh. Dividing the panel output, Wh, by 12V gives us Ah/day. That’s 50Ah/day and 113Ah/day, respectively.

 

The result: for your FWC camper with a compressor refrigerator, you want at least a 160W panel and a 155Ah battery system since some days, especially in northern latitudes, will be so overcast that your panel output will be negligible. You may well get a week of grey skies. Of course, as soon as you move your campsite, you truck alternator will start to recharge the battery. Figure on 10A/hour or more from the truck. Back on shore power? No worries at all.

 

One more comment. FWC installs Exide marine batteries – these are not true deep cycle batteries. They are a compromise between a starting battery and a deep cycle battery. Because the plates are thinner, they can supply much more current on quick notice (starting), but that also means that the plates wear out much sooner for deep cycle use. If you do not have a compressor refrigerator, the standard 75Ah Exide battery that comes with the camper is still a reasonable choice, since the draw down should normally be less than 20% per day. Marine batteries are a lot cheaper than true deep cycle batteries, so that keeps camper costs down, Exide has a 2 year end-user warranty (good for customer service), and as any manufacturing planner will tell you, there is significant overhead cost to having multiple options. Nonetheless, I think FWC should offer the option of true deep cycle batteries.


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#2 DonC

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 02:49 AM

Figure on 10A/hour or more from the truck. 

 

I'm curious how many people get 10a/hr from their truck.  I've never seen greater than 4 which barely keeps up with usage on a cloudy day, meaning little to no actual charging from the am level.


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#3 DesertDave

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 05:01 PM

This approach was what I did as I prepared to order my camper.  I see most people try to jump to the 'solution' when they haven't considered what their electrical draw is.  While you cannot ever estimate exactly what your electrical draw will be, you surely won't know if you don't go through the process.

 

I found it to be a very iterative process, going through many cycles as I tried to solve my electrical draw requirements with appropriate solar and battery capacity.  Costs, and space for adequate solar, are partly what had me do multiple passes.  I wanted a system that would allow me to camp three days in dark, cold conditions, and indefinitely with decent sunlight, and this factored into the calculations also.  It took me awhile to adjust to what things cost!

 

I think it is worthwhile for people to realistically consider in advance of purchases what their circumstances are, and do the analysis necessary to give themselves a good probability of having a successful outcome.


Edited by DesertDave, 15 June 2016 - 05:01 PM.

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#4 Wallowa

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 07:30 PM

Lot of assumptions..

 

Also factor in the 80w portable FWC Zamp panel that can track the sun and improve the angle relative to sun..we have the 160 + 80w dual panel Zamp FWC option.

 

As for lap top/cell phone/tablet amperage use; either leave them home [best option..actually "disconnect"] or charge them inside truck on days you are running the vehicle...not 'mission critical' items.

 

Much consternation...short of a very long extension cord...wear more clothing in winter and forego popping into the ice box in the summer..

 

You didn't mention a big amp user; one that on 'high' is the largest in the Hawk...Fantastic fans, of which we have two....I keep them on only when cooking and then only on lowest setting...

 

Anyway...life is good and the Hawk meets/exceeds out expectations and needs....

 

Phil


Edited by Wallowa, 15 June 2016 - 07:32 PM.

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#5 Stalking Light

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 07:47 PM

Mission critical is in the eye of the beholder. I use my laptop daily to review and edit photos to see if I need to reshoot, so that's critical to me. I have 200w on the roof and a 60w foldable but am still thinking about another 100w roof panel. I believe in having the power I need rather than trying to live with what someone else gets by with. [emoji6]
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#6 Wallowa

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:17 PM

Good point Stalking...it is your profession and I agree with not settling for someone else's "good enough"..

 

What I also need to guard against is "over thinking" an issue...it is all good.

 

Phil


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#7 Stalking Light

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:30 PM

Not a problem, the cool thing about this kind of setup is it can be used in so many ways with some tweaks. [emoji41]
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#8 Kodachrome

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:54 PM

I'd say buy as much as you can fit since needs change and there is not really such a thing as too much solar. I use my rig for work too as a photographer but it's my wife who uses most of the power for her computer work since my computer mostly stays at home unless I am working on marketing....I shoot 80% film....:-) 

 

I also like having 550W on tap incase I need to convert my rig into an emergency vehicle, we are a bit isolated in the mountains I live in.


Edited by Kodachrome, 15 June 2016 - 11:57 PM.

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#9 Ronanmd1

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 09:36 PM

Great post.  Lots of trials and tribulations over the past few years.  Here are a few of my observations.

 

1. The compressor fridge sucks huge power.  In warmer temps it averages about 4A for every hour it runs.  This will quickly drop your battery levels.  If you can't catch up with what you have (e.g. solar, generator etc) then you will be out of juice in a hurry - with warm beer and spoiled meat!

2. Swap all incandescent bulbs to LED.   

3. Agree with the idea of using fan only when needed.  

4. Increased battery bank makes a difference.  I was able to replace my batteries (one had died from inefficient charging) to 2 x 100 Ah deep cycle Trojans.  

5. Upgrade the wiring from the truck to the house batteries.  No more problems with the isolator shutting off the circuit b/c of voltage drop issues.  I easily get up to 30 A from the truck in my 4 gauge wires.  This quickly provides bulk charge when driving.

6. More solar is key - I replaced my 1 x 95W panel with 3 x 100W.  This setup has worked great for me over the past season.  The batteries are never below 75% in the morning even with the fridge running pretty much constantly in hot climates.  I have an extra 160W portable panel for the rear plug, but have not yet needed it.  One added bonus is that the batteries are charged at home in between trips without having to plug it in ahead of time - makes for quick getaways ;)

7. I was so frustrated with things prior to my mods (upgraded wiring and increased solar) that I installed a Trimetric to help me better manage and monitor my system when I did the solar.  Although not essential, I have found it to be very reassuring to know exactly where I stand at all times with a quick glance at the monitor.

 

Just my 2 cents


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#10 Kodachrome

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 11:19 PM

I have just ordered a Trimetric and plan on upgrading the truck to camper wiring at some point, it might require me to remove the camper and I don't really have a place to do that very easily living in a condo.

 

I do have an upgraded 240A alternator so I would like to be able to take advantage of it, 10 gauge wire is not letting me do that.


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