172 replies to this topic

[buckland]

For those that have gone there (it is on my bucket list) what do you think of this? My first sense is to not open it up to more traffic. I'd rather wait my turn.... like the Denali. A lottery? Comes down to more folks wanting to see what is left of the wondrous places saved by those who were ahead of their time and sacrificed money to pass it to the next generation. Seems the more we have instant access the more we ruin what we want to preserve. 

https://www.afar.com...o-more-visitors

[ski3pin]

For those that have gone there (it is on my bucket list) what do you think of this? My first sense is to not open it up to more traffic. I'd rather wait my turn.... like the Denali. A lottery? Comes down to more folks wanting to see what is left of the wondrous places saved by those who were ahead of their time and sacrificed money to pass it to the next generation. Seems the more we have instant access the more we ruin what we want to preserve. 

https://www.afar.com...o-more-visitors

 

The Lady and I put in for the lottery several times for a spot this Spring. We were never picked. Yes, there is the option of showing up to see if a spot is open for that day. We can maybe put up with 20 people. We cannot put up with 96. If the limit is increased to 96, we will not visit the wave. When I want to see 96 people, I'll go walk across the Golden Gate Bridge.

[Vic Harder]

Holy ca@p.. that is a HUGE increase in access!!  I'd love to see that rock formation, but ... isn't 95% of the appeal to see is it in solitude, and to take pictures with no-one else in them?

[buckland]

Here is a nice piece of good news:

 

 

Stargazers Rejoice: United States Gets Three New International Dark Sky Parks

 

https://www.afar.com...-dark-sky-parks

[Smokecreek1]

Okay, I 'm going on a minor ramp here-why! The last three places I've been WTWing have been discovered!!!- formally  lesser known wild places that I have visited over the years, are now on lists-- lists of places-cheap places to go and enjoy nature, the coast, the desert, etc, few people-all the reasons we go to the boonies for! Okay I started thinking on this on my latest WTW run to one of those places and this  forum  fits sort of nicely into my thought process-so here goes!

 

We have a few of those perfect dark sky park type  areas around here (NE Calif/NW Nevada/SC Oregon)-and I sure do hope that they are never discovered by more folks. And that in connection with a response to the post above about opening up certain areas to more use and more people, and the "continued loving " of our fewer and fewer precious and beautiful places to death. I think one of the hardest parts of being a fed for all those years was nominating some special place, thing or object to some type of special status because once you did, the world will know about it and the thing that made it so special could be destroyed by "to much loving" or wanton vandalism.  We did it and we placed our hopes that the law that came with that new status and the hope new people will protect and love them too, even as today we relate the latest act of vandalism or threat to them from the certain non-protective  interests that seem to dominate the land management process today.

 

Over the years , I have come to the conclusion-especially now that I am retired and can WTW to my hearts desire,-that as much as we hate to see the milling masses flock to our special areas, that with out these people, their money, habits, noise and interest, we probably would lose  a much higher percent of these places to over development and use by the few.  Over the years, on this site and around many a campfire, most of us that had some  type of discussion on the plight of these wild lands and arrival of more and more people out here and what to do about it.  As a fed we tried to train them, but that takes time, and tried many -mostly failed efforts to protect them-but we tried and we talked, tried to get the users to work with us!! We wrote plans with their help-to protect these places because once written down and approved, they are difficult to remove without congress doing it.

 

So, now I am retired and like most of us, keep moving further into the boonies, and hope they will not find that precious place we love, but we know they will one day. But they are not the real problem.  We all know who is (probably us).  All we can really do is write those letters and send e-mails, attend those seemingly fewer and fewer public meetings knowing that in  today's world ,  we will be ignored. And we hope that administrations such as we have today will be few and far in between.  About those new folks arriving out here-it is hard, but I talk to them,and by and by they are not so bad (we all started some where  I guess after all), you know try and let them know about how you feel and what you can and can't do and why---and listen to them too-after all if things work out right, it will be their world one day! Not much of a solution or grand thought, but a start-end of rant, and I feel better now and have a new border collie to go playing with now !

 

Smoke

Edited by Smokecreek1, 18 May 2019 - 12:13 AM.

[buckland]

Amen. + .... we have been so lucky to have seen what we have and been to those places so quiet. Education and communication is the only way forward... there are more and more of us. (I learned a lot from living in Japan for a few years...it is very crowded but they have a sense of group responsibility that I hope we can culture here too). Leave no trace.

For you Smoke (a fellow high strung dog lover (I have an Aussie Cattle dog) here is one smart collie

Video: Girl and Border Collie Show Fancy Moves, Leaving Audience in Awe

https://www.theepoch...es_2909090.html

[Smokecreek1]

Thanks Buckland-my new dog is a Border Collie/Aust.Cattle Dog Mix and she succeeded my old "Bob", a border collie/lab mix-so double the fun  and great minds must also think alike me thinks ! (if I tried to do that dance) with my dog-I'd drop dead with the first move).

 

Smoke

Edited by Smokecreek1, 18 May 2019 - 01:05 AM.

[buckland]

This just gets my goat.

It just seems so wrong... trashing nature for ego. 

How can that be enjoyable?

grrrrrrrr

 

 

 

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[Ronin]

Okay, I 'm going on a minor ramp here-why! The last three places I've been WTWing have been discovered!!!- formally  lesser known wild places that I have visited over the years, are now on lists-- lists of places-cheap places to go and enjoy nature, the coast, the desert, etc, few people-all the reasons we go to the boonies for! Okay I started thinking on this on my latest WTW run to one of those places and this  forum  fits sort of nicely into my thought process-so here goes!

 

We have a few of those perfect dark sky park type  areas around here (NE Calif/NW Nevada/SC Oregon)-and I sure do hope that they are never discovered by more folks. And that in connection with a response to the post above about opening up certain areas to more use and more people, and the "continued loving " of our fewer and fewer precious and beautiful places to death. I think one of the hardest parts of being a fed for all those years was nominating some special place, thing or object to some type of special status because once you did, the world will know about it and the thing that made it so special could be destroyed by "to much loving" or wanton vandalism.  We did it and we placed our hopes that the law that came with that new status and the hope new people will protect and love them too, even as today we relate the latest act of vandalism or threat to them from the certain non-protective  interests that seem to dominate the land management process today.

 

Over the years , I have come to the conclusion-especially now that I am retired and can WTW to my hearts desire,-that as much as we hate to see the milling masses flock to our special areas, that with out these people, their money, habits, noise and interest, we probably would lose  a much higher percent of these places to over development and use by the few.  Over the years, on this site and around many a campfire, most of us that had some  type of discussion on the plight of these wild lands and arrival of more and more people out here and what to do about it.  As a fed we tried to train them, but that takes time, and tried many -mostly failed efforts to protect them-but we tried and we talked, tried to get the users to work with us!! We wrote plans with their help-to protect these places because once written down and approved, they are difficult to remove without congress doing it.

 

So, now I am retired and like most of us, keep moving further into the boonies, and hope they will not find that precious place we love, but we know they will one day. But they are not the real problem.  We all know who is (probably us).  All we can really do is write those letters and send e-mails, attend those seemingly fewer and fewer public meetings knowing that in  today's world ,  we will be ignored. And we hope that administrations such as we have today will be few and far in between.  About those new folks arriving out here-it is hard, but I talk to them,and by and by they are not so bad (we all started some where  I guess after all), you know try and let them know about how you feel and what you can and can't do and why---and listen to them too-after all if things work out right, it will be their world one day! Not much of a solution or grand thought, but a start-end of rant, and I feel better now and have a new border collie to go playing with now !

 

Smoke

You're right on about "use it or lose it". It's an easy excuse to say people don't care about public lands that are infrequently visited and therefore taken away for commercial exploitation. Despite the problems that come with the building of roads, visitor centers,campsites, trails, etc could you imagine what would have happened to places like Yosemite, Grand Canyon or Yellowstone if they hadn't been developed for public use ? Fortunately, I'll never run out of places to go that offer solitude and beauty during my wanderings. Yes, some of my special places have become crowded over the years - crowded in the sense that there might be 1 or 2 other campers nearby !! Fortunately, my favorite times to get out is fall, winter, and early spring when the crowds are minimal. Summer's are spent in the backcountry working on trail projects with like minded folk seeking quiet and solitude under the stars after a hard days work!

[wildlife2019]

I was born in the wrong century with regards to this topic.