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Overweight: Your perspective


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#21 Tuff Guy 62

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 04:30 AM

dharte, most of what you wrote is true except the "little more maneuverable" part. There is no comparison between any full size pick up and my old 1986 Toyota/Ranger II FWC in the hills. You simply could not get your F250 where I take my rig. BTW, my loaded/wet rig (not a shell either) is still a couple hundred pounds under GVW.

 

cwd

 

While that may be true about your old '86', the realities of 2017 are quite different.

 

The taco is no longer a compact pickup, it now falls into the mid-size category. A modern Tacoma is about the same size as the Gen 1 Tundras. A quick Google search shows the width for a 2017 Tacoma varies from 74.4 to 75.2 inches depending on model & equipment.

 

Today, I test drove a 2017 Ram 2500 with the offroad package and 6.4L gas motor, this rig is totally BA. Width on the Ram 2500 varies from 79.1 to 79.5 inches. So in comparison we're talking about the taco being about 4.5 inches narrower than a full size 3/4 ton pickup. IMO that is not significant difference to really affect accessibility. The big difference between the two is payload. A Ram 2500 6.4L gasser has a payload of 3,300 lbs, that's about twice the payload of the Tacoma.

 

I'm working the sales team right now and hoping to purchase for $37k out the door, which is about the same price for a 4wd Tacoma before tax & license.


Edited by Tuff Guy 62, 28 May 2017 - 04:30 AM.

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#22 cwdtmmrs

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:14 AM

I agree that the new Tacomas are not mini trucks, and that is why I opted to go with a 2nd generation pickup, However, they are still 2 feet shorter, 5 inches narrower and have a 3 foot less turning radius then a Ram 2500. Plus a Hawk camper is 12" wider than an Eagle or an older Ranger II model camper. I also agree that those things wouldn't matter to most folks, but they would to me.

 

cwd


Edited by cwdtmmrs, 28 May 2017 - 08:37 AM.

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#23 Stalking Light

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 09:56 AM

My Tacoma/Eagle is exactly the combo I wanted. Plenty comfortable on long trips, able to squeeze through places a full size couldn't, etc. If I were to go to a full size I'd probably go flatbed but that would rule out some of the places I go and my neighborhood wouldn't allow me to park it in my driveway. Bigger isn't always better for everyone.
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#24 Tuff Guy 62

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 12:59 PM

......... I also agree that those things wouldn't matter to most folks, but they would to me.

 

cwd

 

.................... Bigger isn't always better for everyone.

 

Yes-sir, I agree with you fellas that one needs to find the "best fit" for each individuals needs and personal preference. What works for one, does not necessarily work for all.

 

Used to be a time, not all that long ago, when you could get a Model-T in any color as long as it was black.
 

Weight and width of our campers are just as varied as the trucks we use to haul them around. An FWC Eagle comes in at a petite 59" wide, while an ATC Panther is a XXL 84". That's a difference of 15-inches! However, that tells only part of the story. While my Panther may be wide, as a shell model it's very light with a dry weight of around 790 lbs, which is lighter than an Eagle with a standard factory build out.

 

However, I digress. The topic of this thread is "Overweight: Your Perspective......

 

My perspective is to keep things simple. Start with a vehicle from the factory, out of the box that can carry the required payload within the GVWR with zero suspension mods. Use that as your starting point and go from there. Pretty much all of our truck/camper combos are custom one-off projects that never really end, regularly siphoning money from our wallets.  ;)

 

But alas to each his own.......

 

Tuff Guy


Edited by Tuff Guy 62, 28 May 2017 - 01:01 PM.

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#25 Bill D

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 03:03 PM

Isn't what really matters is that you get out and camp?

 

A lot of people go through years of research and then end up purchasing a used XYZ and in the end they are usually pretty content with it.  Everything has trade offs, but no matter the combination most popup combos are quite versatile.  I doubt there was ever a rally where somebody couldn't make it because of their combo (of course on the forum we have to take everything to the extreme  :P ).


Edited by Bill D, 28 May 2017 - 03:07 PM.

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#26 idahoron

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 05:49 PM

The biggest reason to buy Toyota over the others is I like to drive my truck. I have seen a lot of the other big three being towed. Toyota is far more dependable that the rest.  Fords don't get to 200,000 miles unless they are on a flat bed trailer. 


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#27 nikonron

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 05:58 PM

^^^   :)  We Ron's think a bit alike.


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#28 BillTheHiker

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 06:24 PM

My Tacoma + FWC Fleet fits( by 2 inches) in my garage and that is extremely important to me. I considered ATC bobcat but it measured a bit taller.

 

I also like being able to just sit DOWN into the driver's seat vs climbing up into a full size truck.

 

If I should ever forget to bring my step stool, I can get in the camper door by stepping on the truck rear bumper without too much difficulty.

 

The lower roof should make it easier to clear snow if I take it skiing.  Whatever device I use to reach up there, it will be shorter and lighter than that required for a larger rig.

 

I can change my 16" tires, but just barely. Anything heavier could be an issue for me.

 

Smaller is often simpler and I like both.


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#29 moveinon

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 07:07 PM

I know people buy different trucks for a variety of reasons, which is good because it keeps all of the manufacturers in business competing with each other.  My last Toyota was the most dependable truck I have ever owned and that made the most difference to me buying my next truck.  When I shopped for this last truck I saw that even though the Tacoma doesn’t have the best mileage it had the lowest cost per mile of any truck, and now a few years later it still does (Kelly Blue Book).  It also has the highest resale value (JD Power) of any truck.  It was also the smallest truck although bigger than my other one used to be and I expect to put 250,000 miles on this one also.  I have only run into a few situations that a bigger truck would not have gotten where I go in the woods, and that related as much to length and turning radius as it did to added width.  But it is also my daily driver in the city and there I run into a lot more issues in parking garages (they pack the spaces as tight as possible in those places) and other parking spaces where a truck that was any higher, wider and longer just would not fit.  Even in my own garage with the camper beside the truck and car in the winter if the truck was any wider I could not open the car or truck doors so an added few inches really does make a difference to me in how I use it.  I have a neighbor with a big 1 ton truck with a Bigfoot camper he parks outside- it is a beautiful set up and he loves it- he would not like my little combo at all and vise versa.  I guess the important thing is that we get what we want and then want what we get after we get it.


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#30 Tubel5000

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

Wow, I wasn't aware that the "overweight" topic would create such a buzz!

 

First of all: Thank you very much to everyone who contributed. At first, I thought I was the only one who has the weight issue in mind, but it turns out that everyone is. Let me reply to some of you: 

 

 

Also to answer your specific questions:
 

1. I am not worried about insurance.  I read through the fine print in my insurance and there is no mention of weight.  I don't really see this as any different than other vehicle modifications that may make your vehicle less safe (lifts, bumper bars, oversized tires, roof top tents etc).

2. I have not seen any evidence or instance of a broken frame on a tacoma from a camper, but would be interested if you had. 

3. Upgraded suspension and tires and driving the truck like it is heavy (because it is heavy). 

 

I have not seen a broken frame on a tacoma but recently read an article in a German magazine about it. If you klick on the following link (Google image search in German - I am Swiss, btw, that's why): LINK. There's no Tacoma but others. 

 

To echo ETAV8R's  comment, it really comes down to, are you going to be okay with it ? The adage here would be "know thyself".

 

You already know you would be overweight before buying - can't use the "I had the truck already" rational.  And you'll know that everyone is different, what might work for a solo occupant may not be satisfactory for three people.

 

So, does having those two other occupants influence your weight concern ? Would weight concern affect where you chose to travel ? Others do it. Are you going to be okay with it ?

 

 

I would probably not be okay with being too heavy, that's why it concerns my that much. And by the amount of owners of this or similar combos I started to ask myself if there was a flaw in my thoughts or how the others do it. 

 

 

 

Go back to square ONE:

1) Find the camper you want and get the WET weight from the mfger.

2) Make a list of EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY who will be on the trip and figure out the WEIGHT of all that.

3) Now you know what the load will be.

4) Now you can go look at trucks to see what you NEED....and that is probably a 3/4 ton based on the GVWR needed to haul you and your camper and your "stuff" safely down the happy highway.

 

 

 

 

That was exactly what I did and why I ended up so confused over the fact that so many people own combos that don't add up. Hence my questions..

 

 

One of my good friends is a Service manager for Toyota. 

I told him my numbers for my Tundra. I am right at the Max most of the time and some times over. I talked to him about how the truck says X amount for GVWR. 

He said read that close. It says that with P rated tires. Just the act of changing the tires increases the GVWR.  I asked him by how much and he said he didn't know but The weak link in the GVWR rating for Toyota is the P rated tires. 

 

Interesting. That could be the reason why all of the combos that "only" upgrade suspension and tires actually work..

 

 

Tubel5000,

 

I've written a number of article on this issue on Overland Tech and Travel. Search for JATAC and you'll find them. One looked at emergency handling, here. There's no doubt you'll be beyond the GVWR of a Tacoma with a Four Wheel Camper and all equipment, but there are steps you can take to compensate. Suspension is obviously number one.

 

 

 

Thanks for the interesting read, JHanson!

 

 

I'm confused why anyone would want a Tacoma/camper combo over a full size setup. They don't get better gas mileage than modern full size trucks and have a more limited range. My diesel F250 with a Hawk gets better mileage on trips than my friends loaded up Tacoma (without a camper). Also the full size trucks are more comfortable, safer in a crash, and obviously can tow more and handle heavier payloads. The only advantage to a Tacoma is it's a little more maneuverable, but how often would that really limit where you can go? Neither are going to function like a short wheelbase Wrangler off road. An article in today's paper said that certain models of full-size trucks and SUV's (like the F150) have a higher chance to make it to 200,000 miles over all other vehicles, so I don't think reliability is a factor. Tacomas are good trucks but they are not engineered for camper hauling.

 

In my case it's not a size issue but I intend to leave the states with the combo and a Toyota will always be easier to service/repair than a full size of the Big Three..

 

 

Isn't what really matters is that you get out and camp?

 

A lot of people go through years of research and then end up purchasing a used XYZ and in the end they are usually pretty content with it.  Everything has trade offs, but no matter the combination most popup combos are quite versatile.  I doubt there was ever a rally where somebody couldn't make it because of their combo (of course on the forum we have to take everything to the extreme  :P ).

 

TRUE! But research is an important part of the process, becaus it

a) makes us believe we have the best possible option

B) it is a lot of fun to think about the rig we will once have :D


Edited by Tubel5000, 29 May 2017 - 10:30 AM.

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