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Overweight: Your perspective


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#51 SeatoSea

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 10:31 PM

And we're not suppose to talk politics, I love this web site✌️
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#52 ntsqd

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 02:20 AM

 I just find it amusing that many on forums like this (and others) seem to have a better engineering background than the people who designed our vehicles....

I'm semi self-banned from one forum because the net-educated "Engineers" clearly know more about this sort of thing than I do. Just ask them, they'll tell you so (and they have) and won't tolerate disagreement.


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Thom

Where does that road go?

#53 CamperCamper

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

I took a 2015 Tundra dbl cab 4x4 with a 2014 Hawk slide in to some remote areas and rough roads in Baja, MX in March 2017 and March 2016. My weight certificate fully loaded ( 2 occupants in the cab, 47 gals water, 26 gals fuel, two full propane tanks, moderate amounts of recovery gear, camp stove etc.) had me at 8800 lbs in 2017 and 8400 lbs in 2016 (more gear from what I learned on the first trip). The GVWR of the Tundra is right around 7200 lbs. My experience with weights is probably closer to reality for most folks than they care to believe. A well equipped Hawk slide in will tip the scales at 1300 to 1500 lbs. Mine weighed 1350lbs, the fuel is right around 210 lbs, the water right at 400 lbs. you can see I don't carry an excessive amount of gear!

The truck has a custom spring pack, ride rite air bags, sway bar and E rated tires. The spring pack was built to carry that load and the air bags level the load. In 2017, I had 12 psi in one bag and 8 psi in the other. This pressure in the bags took the truck right back to the factory height when it rolled off the dealer's lot. I have a chart (put together from Michelin) that tells me the air pressure required in each tire to support a given load. The tires will carry 80 psi (btw, that 80 psi translates to 6,830 lbs per axel or 13,600 of weight for both axels!) but have never been anywhere near that pressure because my weight does not come close to the tire limit and the ride is too bouncy with too much air. I start with the front axel and inflate to a pressure 500 lbs above the required pressure for that load. Looking at the door sticker from the manufacturer, I learned that the factory settings for the P rated tires looked for a 3 psi increase to the rear tires over front tires and I set the rear tires 3 psi above the front tire pressure determined from my chart and weight certificate. If necessary, I shift cargo around to keep both axels close to 500 lbs below the tire settings.

I drive up to 70 mph on US freeways, keep a very safe following distance (even in my passenger vehicles) and averaged 14 mpg with the 5.7L motor on both trips of over 3500 miles. The vehicle now has close to 30,000 miles (all driven with the camper on the truck as this is not my daily driver) and I just completed an exhaustive inspection at my buddie's shop. He asked me if I used the brakes when inspecting them since they show absolutely no sign of wear. We checked (with torque wrench) every body bolt, spring shackle bolt, frame bolt, upper and lower control arms, etc. Everything was at factory specifications. We checked front and rear diff levels etc, etc, etc. My tires are rated at 60,000 mile wear and I do a 5 tire rotation every 5k miles. They still have over 95% of the original tread on them. I change the synthetic oil every 5k miles despite a recommendation of every 10k miles. I fully expect this truck to last a very long time and treat it as if that is my goal!

I am a Toyota guy. And a Honda guy too. They are superior vehicles to the domestic lineup in my opinion. I base that opinion on 30 years of real life experience as a wholesale auto dealer (left the retail side of the business to the more patient types in the industry). I have bought and sold literally 10's of thousands of used vehicles. When that many vehicles cross your path, some fairly consistent data can come your way. It takes away the bias that can crop up with a limited sample size. Every manufacturer makes good vehicles and some bad vehicles. If you only own one then your opinion can get tilted by the small sample size. Can my Toyota let me down? You betcha. My experience tells me that the probability is less than with some other manufacturers. The Toyotas and Hondas on average last longer, have more miles and are generally in better condition and keep a higher resale value than their domestic counterparts. But hey, there are some dealers who will tell you the exact opposite of my experience. This argument never ends.

You should buy the vehicle that best suits your needs, build it so that it is safe and reliable for your intended use and above all maintain it religiously as if your life depended on it-cuz it does!

I hope my experiences help you with your decision.

Edited by CamperCamper, 07 June 2017 - 05:00 PM.

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#54 Vic Harder

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:16 PM

You should buy the vehicle that best suits your needs, build it so that it is safe and reliable for your intended use and above all maintain it religiously as if your life depended on it-cuz it does!
 

 

Excellent advice!


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#55 klahanie

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

I took a 2015 Tundra dbl cab 4x4 with a 2014 Hawk slide in to some remote areas and rough roads in Baja, MX in March 2017 and March 2016. My weight certificate fully loaded ( 2 occupants in the cab, 47 gals water, 26 gals fuel, two full propane tanks, moderate amounts of recovery gear, camp stove etc.) had me at 8800 lbs in 2017 and 8400 lbs in 2016 (more gear from what I learned on the first trip). The GVWR of the Tundra is right around 7200 lbs. My experience with weights is probably closer to reality for most folks than they care to believe. A well equipped Hawk slide in will tip the scales at 1300 to 1500 lbs. Mine weighed 1350lbs, the fuel is right around 210 lbs, the water right at 400 lbs. you can see I don't carry an excessive amount of gear!

 

 

I agree with knowing your numbers and the "add it all up first" approach. I made a spread sheet before our current set up and still weight the rig on almost every trip using closed public hwy scales. However it's important to be aware that you may want to carry more weight going forward as a result of experience and new wants. That's why I would recommend to someone new to campers and who's both truck and camper shopping (like the OP, I assume) not to be calculated overweight from day one if at all possible. My perspective being, chances are you're going to add weight after getting started and having some payload room will make more palatable those decisions to add that weight, whether it be for mods for the vehicle or camper, or gear for recovery, camping, new activities etc. You may end up over GWVR, but getting there will be incremental choices - like eating cookies.

 

As for Toyota vs the world (and yes, I pined for and purchased an '86 Toyota truck, back in the day), from a layman's POV  I'd say a Tundra would be a much better bet for starting out being overloaded than a Tacoma that the OP asked about. But again it comes down to one's own comfort level.


Edited by klahanie, 07 June 2017 - 09:03 PM.

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#56 iowahiker

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:03 PM

My "philosophy":  I want trouble free, no attention, driving for 150,000 to 250,000 miles going anywhere (transcontinental interstates to single track dirt roads) short of requiring skid plates (since I do not have skid plates).  My truck is totally stock and performs flawlessly under those conditions.  I take the truck to the dealer every 8-10,000 miles and do not otherwise think about my truck which is totally stock.  My GVWR is 8200 pounds and my loaded and wet weight is around 7500 pounds.  

 

Braking: perfect.

Sag: none.

Modifications: none.

Fuel economy: better than our goal prior to purchase (goal- 15 mpg, actual- 15.5 mpg).

Handling: perfect.

Ride: perfect.

Go anywhere: no.

Go where I want to go: yes.


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#57 gfiero

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:09 PM

I have and am selling a 2016 Swift or a 2007 Tacoma because of the weight issue, The brakes are taxed, the suspension is taxed but most of all the engine is not up to this load. Before the camper with a FlipPac I got 15 mpg approx.  now about 11 mpg.  Have to get up to 3500rpm to climb hills or even freeway over passes.  There is no such thing as an emergency stop in this combination.  Suspension is EMU Dakar with Dever leafs (2) added to rear of vehicle.  Since the camper is new it is a hard sell, so I am also looking at a Ram 1500 4x4. At 9200 ft elevation the truck could not even wheeze....

 

I require  my combination to take me places where there is no road, no path so maybe I require a little more out my toys. 

 

I love the camper, I love my Tacoma but this is not a match made in heaven.  Modifications do not make the whole vehicle capable of managing this weight in all conditions, so I will loose money one or the other and correctly match my needs to capabilities. 

 

Just my take on the issue,


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#58 JaSAn

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:00 PM

gfriero:

 

might I suggest you look at 3/4 ton pickups.  Floating axles, bigger brakes, stiffer suspension, about 1000 lbs more payload.

And watch out for 20" wheels on some 1/2 ton pickups.  Look great but poor selection of load range E tires, which you will want if you do any driving off maintained roads.

 

I have a Grandby on a 2012 Ram 2500.  Weighs in at 7900 lb with 2 weeks boondocking supplies.

 

jim


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#59 buckland

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:39 PM

Check out the Colorado 2.8 deisel... my eagle is on it.... used to be 4 cylinder Tacoma...Now I have incredible 369 pounds of torque. The camper weigh does nothing to the acceleration .... pass people on hills. I got 27 mpg on my last trip.... usually average 24.

I put an ada-a-leaf, bags and a sway bar on. I am happy and  think you would be too... take a test drive. Eagle and fleet are almost the same.  


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#60 klahanie

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 07:14 PM

gfiero,

 

Too bad to read about your experience but if you are not confident in the brakes you are doing the right thing in upgrading.

 

A turbo charged engine will make a noticeable power difference at high elevation. You might want to check out the ecodiesel in the Ram and ecoboost. in the F150. I don't know about the 1500 but one s/b able to get 2000# payload in a ecoboost ext cab/short box -  if that is "enough". Of course if it were me I'd go larger, skipping the 3/4 to go 1 ton.

 

Before you sell it would be useful for you to know just how much laden weight was added to the Tacoma.

 

Funny thing about a fullsize, it can limit where one can travel vs a compact (because of size), yet can potentially enable one to go future, stay out longer or try more "risky" roads because of the usually larger payload allows one to bring more stuff (fuel, water, recovery gear etc). So care must still be taken not to end up overloaded ...


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