Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Ford 6.7L Powerstroke & Fuel Quality


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Wandering Sagebrush

Wandering Sagebrush

    Free Range Human

  • Site Team
  • 10,532 posts
  • LocationNortheast Oregon

Posted 01 October 2019 - 09:31 PM

With 75,000 miles on my F350, I started having occasional check engine lights, even though the truck seemed (with one exception) to run fine. The light would go out by itself after putting a diagnostic tester on it. Each time, the code was P132B. When I took it to my Ford dealer, a more thorough test showed a P0402 excessive EGR system flow code as well

The exception occurred on our recent Colorado, when the cold engine stumbled for a very short time when leaving a campground.

So, $3,100 bucks later, I have $1,200 worth of new parts, with the remainder in labor. Two broken bolts on a manifold caused the extra labor. The dealer said that 80% of the time they have at least one bolt that breaks.

Purportedly, the cause is poor quality diesel that leads to a carbon build up, and blocking of the EGR valve binding. Discount fuel sources like Kroger’s/Freddy’s, etc and biodiesel were mentioned as places to avoid. Chevron was the product they said was their personal choice. For the first 30 to 40 thousand miles on my truck, I used Space Age fuel, but switched to Chevron when the SA station started selling Bio only.

I don’t know if other brand diesels are affected by fuel quality, but you might consider researching what truck manufacturers recommend to avoid a similar issue.
  • 0

I am haunted by waters


#2 fish more

fish more

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 791 posts
  • LocationSierra Foothills

Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:33 AM

What year is your truck? EGR may be covered by the Ferderal Emision Warranty 8 years 80k


  • 0

#3 Advmoto18

Advmoto18

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts
  • LocationCoastal Low Country, SC

Posted 02 October 2019 - 11:18 AM

Hi Steve....

 

Did you get snowed in last weekend?

90F along the SC coast the past 10 days!

 

Sorry to hear your wallet is significantly lighter!

 

I have a few random thoughts...and memories.

 

I don't recall the MY of your 350 (mine is a '16)...

 

Your comment about the cold engine stutter brings back some very old comments I heard.

 

A good buddy from TBS was a Motor T officer at Pendleton when I was at El Toro.  We talked many times about diesel motors in everything from tanks to 6x6 trucks.  USMC procedures were not to move a diesel truck until the temp gauge moved off the cold peg unless absolutely necessary for operational tempo.

 

Likewise, my cousin was a long haul trucker back in the 70/80s.  He never moved his truck until the engine had warmed up at idle.

 

Both my cousin and USMC buddy stated, years apart, that it was critical to allow a diesel engine to come to operating temperature before moving.

 

Having flown a bunch of turbo and fanjet airplanes, we never moved the airplane until EGT (exhaust gas temp) had reached a certain temp.  99% of the time that was within a matter of minutes.  But, on one cold winter morning at 6AM in Cleveland, we waited almost 10 minutes for the engine temp to reach the number that allowed me to advance the throttles above idle.  Jets burn Jet A which is the equivalent of LSD fuel.  What we use to burn in our diesel trucks before ULSD was mandated.  Jet A is just filtered a heck of a lot more than truck stop diesel to remove water and other impurities.

 

You mentioned Kroger diesel.  I filled up with a couple of times at Kroger and my MPG was ~35% less compared to filling up at Shell or BP (12 MPG v 18 MPG).  The last time I filled up at Kroger, I collected a sample and took it to the NC/NC State Ag Lab for analysis.  I don't recall the parts per million, but the water content was extremely high.  Even so, not high enough for the state to do something about it.  After receiving the fuel analysis and talking to the PhD at the lab, from that point forward, I have only filled up with diesel at name brand gas stations with a diesel high turn over.  Diesel will lose octane very quickly if it sits in the ground tank. 

 

I filled up once in Oklahoma with B20 and my truck ran very, very rough and MPG was 8!!!!  I will avoid B15 and B20 fuels at every chance even though I have a B20 badge on the side of the truck.

 

Further, name brand diesel fuel receives additives to slow oxidation thereby helping to  eliminate damage to engine and exhaust components.  Without the additives, diesel fuel can oxidize in 30 days which will lead to damaging injectors, fuel lines and exhaust components.

 

So, I always try to fill up with quality fuel.  If forced to buy no-name fuel, I top off at the first chance I get with name brand and continue to do so until I feel the no-name has been thoroughly diluted.

 

I always use remote start to start my engine.  If above 60F, I will allow the engine to run until it shuts down, then drive slowly until temp gauge moves off the peg.

 

32-50F, I will use remote start twice before considering moving the truck.

 

Below 32F, I allow the truck to idle until temp gauge comes off the peg.

 

These are just techniques I've heard about over the decades from some very experienced diesel engine operators.  My 2002 F-250 never had a single issue.  Likewise, my 2016 has been trouble free as well.  

 

I do change the fuel filter (and air filter) every other oil change (I change the oil/filter every 7500 miles with Rotella T-5).  Probably far sooner than necessary, but, I consider it cheap insurance.


  • 1

South Carolina Low Country.  


#4 Wandering Sagebrush

Wandering Sagebrush

    Free Range Human

  • Site Team
  • 10,532 posts
  • LocationNortheast Oregon

Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:31 PM

What year is your truck? EGR may be covered by the Ferderal Emision Warranty 8 years 80k


I believe that’s the sensor, not the valve. And, yes there is a significantly better warranty for that and a crank case rebreather component.
  • 0

I am haunted by waters


#5 Wandering Sagebrush

Wandering Sagebrush

    Free Range Human

  • Site Team
  • 10,532 posts
  • LocationNortheast Oregon

Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:50 PM

Bill, good morning. Yup, it’s no fun to take things out of the green locker unless buying a toy..

My truck is a 2014. While I’ve never warmed it up at higher temps, I do use remote start when the temps drop into the 40s. If hauling a load, I make sure it is warmed up before moving. When shutting down, I always let it idle for a couple of minutes to let the turbo cool, as recommended by Ford. I think I’ll be more diligent about warming at any temp.

I’ve been even more obsessive about oil changes than you. My practice is to change oil and filter every 3000, with fuel filter every 12 to 15;000. Air filters changed on schedule, or if dirty after time in the dust.

Other than a manifold leak, I never had an engine problem on my ‘00 7.3L Powerstroke. I did use a fuel additive after the ULSD became law.

No snow yet, but the vine maples in the Cascades are bright scarlet already.

Semper Fi
  • 0

I am haunted by waters


#6 Advmoto18

Advmoto18

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts
  • LocationCoastal Low Country, SC

Posted 02 October 2019 - 10:55 PM

I miss the fall colors.  No such thing along the SC coast;  We are beginning to get the fall pine needle drop.  Our dead of winter temps are pretty much what ID and MT is getting now.

 

Semper Fi!


  • 0

South Carolina Low Country.  


#7 smlobx

smlobx

    Lost again

  • Members
  • 1,529 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 02 October 2019 - 11:10 PM

I miss the fall colors.  No such thing along the SC coast;  We are beginning to get the fall pine needle drop.  Our dead of winter temps are pretty much what ID and MT is getting now.
 
Semper Fi!


HA!
I’ve been at PAX and JBAB most of the week and it was 97 today! Luckily there were lots of toys to look at!
  • 0

Eddie
KO4CPL

 

Travel light. Travel far. Travel safe.


#8 Advmoto18

Advmoto18

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts
  • LocationCoastal Low Country, SC

Posted 02 October 2019 - 11:31 PM

HA!
I’ve been at PAX and JBAB most of the week and it was 97 today! Luckily there were lots of toys to look at!

Building houses at PAX and Boling?  LOL....

Great toys at PAX for sure!!!!


  • 0

South Carolina Low Country.  


#9 Bigfoot Dave

Bigfoot Dave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 128 posts

Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:59 AM

I had a 2012 6.7 that started setting a code for blocked EGR cooler at about 75K. When I talked with the mechanic he showed me other coolers that had been removed from vehicles that were idled for long periods of time like railroad and construction. He explained that prolonged idling and low exhaust temps caused the deposits that looked like hard molasses to form in the honeycomb of the cooler.

I plow my driveway and lot in the winter and do communications at several dog sled races every winter and I never prewarm my truck. My cooler wasn't anywhere near as clogged as the others I looked at but now I try to minimize any idling.

In our Minnesota/Wisconsin area I try to always buy non bio fuel from quality stations and always use an additive like Powerservice or Amsoil.

Hope this helps, Bigfoot Dave, still running a 2015 and a 2019 F350 6.7 in our family


  • 0

#10 Advmoto18

Advmoto18

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts
  • LocationCoastal Low Country, SC

Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:47 PM

A few days after posting above, I experienced my first major issue with a Super Duty diesel in 3 decades of ownership.

 

The thrills of now owning a computer truck!

 

To recap, I have had two 7.3s and never once had an issue.  I did follow the recall notice and have the camshaft sensor replaced on my 2003 7.3 as this fault can be an immediate show stopper.  I bought a 6.7 F-350 in 2016 (new).

 

A few days after posting above, I had a "EXHAUST FILTER OVERLOADED DRIVCE TO CLEAN" caution pop up on the 4" display.  The Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) is clogged up.  Passive and Active Regenerations were now failing to clean the DPF.

 

A day later, every warning and caution on the dash illuminated along with "ADVANTRAC SERVICE" "LOW OIL PRESSURE" "LOW COOLANT LEVEL" and the wrench icon illuminated on the 4" display.  All round gauges indicated normal operation.  I pulled over and shut the engine down.  A few minutes later, I started up and drove home without any warning and cautions or issues.

 

The following day, the same thing happened again.  This time after shutting down, the engine would not restart and I had the additional caution displayed "START SYSTEM FAILURE" annunciated.

 

I removed both NEG battery cables from the terminals and allowed the truck to sit for 20 minutes for the ECM/PCM to drain residual electrical energy (per Ford TSB).

 

I reattached the NEG cables and the engine started up.  Warning and cautions were no long annunciated and the CHECK ENGINE light was annunciated.  After reading other Ford TSBs, I discovered it generally takes two events of the same problem to trip and continuously illuminate the CHECK ENGINE light.

 

I got home attached my OBD2 reader and discovered the following codes.

P2610 Cnf    Ecm/Pcm Internal Eng Off Timer Perf

P2610 Pnd

P2610 Prm

 

The 2610 code is a rather generic code used by all manufacturers.  It was implemented in the 90s to comply with exhaust component monitoring per CARB regulations.  Basically, the ECM must be able to track operating cycles to track component longevity.  To do so, there must be a timer that starts when the engine is shut down and stops when the engine is started again.  This becomes a single shutdown cycle.  If the ECM engine off timer doesn't work, 2610 is tripped.

 

The fix is to check to ensure all sensors are operating normally.  If so, the corrective action is to reprogram the ECM/PCM and if that doesn't work, replace and program a new ECM/PCM according to the VIN.  This can only be done at a Ford dealer as independents do not have access to Ford software/servers for reprograming or new ECM activation per VIN.

 

After talking with the service manager, I don't think the ECM/PCM issue is related to the overloaded exhaust filter.

 

In the past few days, I learned that "old school" 7.3 engine starting and warming techniques I mentioned in my earlier post are not good techniques for the 6.7 motors with DPFs and other associated exhaust components.  One of the leading causes of an overloaded DPF is using remote start when not needed (above freezing ambient temperature) and using it more than once before driving away followed by allowing the engine to needlessly idle or driving most of your miles at slow speeds.

 

Remote start use for a diesel with a DPF is different than using such for a gasoline motor.

 

There are several forms of regeneration for the DPF.  When those fail to clean the DPF, you get the "DRIVE TO CLEAN" warning.  Driving at highway speeds for more than 20 minutes allows the combustion chamber gases to reach a high enough temperature to burn off the accumulated soot in the DPF. 

 

If driving doesn't help, then the remaining option is to have the DPF cleaned.  The kits you can use at home might clean a clogged DPF but aren't nearly as effective as removing the DPF and using a 10 stage cleaning process to include placing it in heated solvent and using ultrasonic cleaning.  

 

My truck heads to the dealer on Monday for ECM/PCM analysis/corrective action (reprogram or replacement) and DPF cleaning.   Unfortunately, Ford dealers do not use the ultrasonic cleaning process but rather a forced solvent soak/bath.

 

So it will be interesting to see how many months or years before I get another "OVERLOADED EXHAUST FILTER DRIVE TO CLEAN" caution.  The next time I get the caution, I will take the truck to a diesel shop capable of performing the ultra sonic cleaning process.


Edited by Advmoto18, 19 October 2019 - 01:08 AM.

  • 0

South Carolina Low Country.  





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users