30 replies to this topic

[camsf]

Very helpful information on this thread. I'm running a Four Wheel Camper (Eagle-850 pounds) on my 2016 Tacoma TRD Offroad. Currently I have OME Dakar leafs and Firestone air bags installed. Now want to upgrade shocks front and rear from stock (this rig really needs an upgrade for damping). Moderate offroading use. Want to be wise about the investment and not having to replace quickly because I went too cheap on the setup. I'm leaning towards Billstein 6112's (lifted to 2") in the front and 5160's in the rear. Love any feedback. Here's an example of my confusion: Kings with reservoir up front are 2.5x the price. Kings in the rear are 3x the price and OME BP 51s are a little less but still much more. Considering my heavy rig and medium offroad usage, what will spending $3000 for Kings get me that I won't get at $1000/Billstein?

[WillTheThri11]

Well I haven’t pulled the trigger yet or made my decision, but honestly I’m between ARB nitro charger sports and Accutune Fox shocks with adjusters. I’ve had some back and forth with those guys and they really know their stuff. The way I see it if you want the right ride, go with accutune. They custom valve the shock for your truck specifically with the weight you plan to have in it. They recommend the adjusters if you’re going not running the camper full time. The idea with the nitro chargers(bilstein 5100s are probably about the same) is that they’re “cheap” and will probably do pretty decent although they won’t be well tuned to the weight differences. The BP-51s would be the 3rd choice only because of the internal bypass and rebound damping. Accutune advises against them but also don’t have a lot of experience with them. ARB is a good brand and they like to weigh down their trucks in Australia so I think it’s probably a decent product. That said the custom work that Accutune does is most enticing for about the same price as the BP-51 setup.

[WillTheThri11]

Forgot to mention regarding the King shocks. Accutune sells those as well for people who want them but they told me that the materials are better on the fox shocks so they will last longer. Either way, Accutune builds a custom shock for you for the regular retail price. Haven’t seen any sales from them unfortunately, but they are the same price as the non-sale price elsewhere. They also said they have a specific custom shock for the rear of the Tacoma that is based on a Tundra shock, that would be better for a heavy Tacoma.

[Beach]

I've had my Hawk on a 06 tundra then a 2012 F250. I equipped both with Bilstien 4600s. Mostly paved back roads and gravel with some washboard thrown in. They have performed well and holding up fine.

[camsf]

Appreciate the feedback.  I'm going to connect with Accutune and get their take.  

[JHanson]

If Accutune is "advising against" BP51s they're doing a disservice. Nothing wrong with promoting your own brand, but to suggest BP51s would somehow be a poor choice is simply disingenuous. The proper response would be, "Sure, the BP51 is a great shock. Here's why we think ours are even better."

 

I'm always suspicious of companies that promote their brand by cutting down other brands.

Edited by JHanson, 11 April 2020 - 09:26 PM.

[WillTheThri11]

My correspondence with Accutune is below. Read it and make your own judgement. They didn’t advise against the BP-51 as a product, but advised against internal bypass for a situation where you ride with substantially different weights and fluctuating ride height. They don’t offer the ARB products and could not comment specifically on them.

From Accutune:

Absolutely! Love to answer any questions you have.

Starting with the IBP, there are a couple reasons why they don't work well on a daily driver. For starters, we need to understand how they work. I highly suggest taking a look at this video from Fox:
So on a daily vehicle, the ride height fluctuates. Whether it's gear or people, it changes often. So the issue we run into is when the ride height changes, the distance between the piston, and the bleed holes changes. The bleed holes are placed relative to the position of the piston at ride height. So now the Shock is operating different than what it was originally designed to do. Which is why we only suggest them on race only vehicles. Even on airbags, we have never been able to tune them properly on a daily. In fact airbags will more than likely contribute to the issue of ride height.

As far as durability and performance of Fox, there is a lot that goes into that. Taking a look at the internals and working our way out on the shock: The oil inside the Fox shocks, is MUCH better. It offers substantially better lubrication with a viscosity index of 370, versus King which is at 150. Fox also rates it's oil up to 400 degrees, which is important as it is very common for shocks to operate outside their rated range (Fox's manufacturer rates their oil from -65 to 275). The viscosity of the Fox oil also helps with performance as it provides superior lubrication. On the outside, the biggest things are the piston rods. King uses a very soft shaft on their shocks and they are very prone to pitting as well as getting scared by rocks and such. This causes seals to blow out and a very expensive rebuild. Kings shafts are high carbon steel shaft that is NOT heat treated, where as Fox uses a heat treated stainless steel with hard chrome plating. We get a lot of Kings in here with shaft and seal repairs.

As far as performance goes, both King and Fox do well in this department. They both deliver good rebound and compression dampening. However with the added lubrication from Fox's oil, Fox definitely has the edge on that. Keep in mind that we will be custom tuning these as far as they valve stack goes, so they will both ride great. However the Fox tends to last longer due to the superior materials they use. Fox typically rates these shocks for servicing them ever 50,000 miles if 100% street, and every 10,000 miles if 50% on road and 50% offroad.

Thank You,
Tyler

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:04 AM Will
Thanks, I appreciate your response and advice. I don't mean to pester, but as an engineer, I've been attracted to Accutune for their/your technical knowledge/skills, so i'm curious if you can share why internal bypass (with comp/rebound adjusters) is a bad idea for a daily driver and why the airbags will impact that even further. I'm also curious what makes the fox shock a better performer and more durable.

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:18 AM Sales
Hi Will,
Unfortunately I cannot comment on the OME set up as they are not someone we work with, however I can tell you that the Fox definitely has the edge in both performance and durability. Especially with our custom tuning.

I would definitely encourage you to stray away from the internal bypass as they do not work well at all on a daily driver or something where the weight and ride height is going to be fluctuating. With airbags that is going to bring the performance down even further.

As far as the adjusters go, I can tell you that customers are extremely pleased with the DSC adjusters. They really provide all the adjustability you will need with your vehicle.

In my opinion, you will be very happy with the performance and durability the Fox shocks offer you.

Thank You,
Tyler

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:50 PM Will
Hi,

So I went with the airbags on the back and it seems to have done really well at handling the weight. I'm continuing my research into shock absorbers and wanted to get your opinion on one option i came across.

Do you know anything about the ARB OME BP51? Looks like it has compression and rebound damping and internal bypass but in a ~2" package. Any thoughts on this setup as opposed to the fox with the 1 and 2 stage compression only adjusters?

I realize you don't carry the ARB setup so you may be a little biased, but they seem to be a good product and close competition to what you guys provide with a little more of an "off the shelf" feel than your custom setups.

Curious what your thoughts are, let me know.

Thanks,

Will

Edited by WillTheThri11, 13 April 2020 - 03:38 AM.

[JHanson]

Thanks for posting that. My understanding of internal-bypass technology is that is can be tuned for any application, just like a non-BP shock. The fact that ride height changes by an inch or two given varying load should make no difference to either type. The placement and size of the bypass orifices can be varied to suit the application, whether that be an ultra-long-travel race shock or one made for an overlanding vehicle. In the latter you would want a much shorter stroke before the piston passed the orifices to engage full damping.

 

However, it's interesting that Accutune does not push them when it could do so easily.

 

I'll be curious to run this past an OME engineer. When I hear back I'll report . . .

Edited by JHanson, 12 April 2020 - 11:33 PM.

[PDXPTW]

I hate to say this, but you may be putting lipstick on a pig here.  I would guess your camper loaded is at LEAST 1000lb, and probably a fair bit more, and then you need to add in the weight or people and gear in the cab - it adds up fast.    The main issue is being overloaded and having the COG being significantly behind the rear axle.  It is unlikely this will ever handle very well in this configuration, regardless of shocks.  The money would be better spent on either an 8' bed truck or a shorter camper. 

 

However, back to the suspension set up - springs are much more important than shocks in this situation.   What springs are you running for the extra load? 

 

I have a 2016 Tacoma with a Fleet Flatbed and have had OK luck with OME BP-51s, I have the Dakar heavy springs in the back (with the add a leaf) and heavy coils in the front.   I also have airbags in the back, but really only use these for minor adjustments and never run more than 25psi in these, and usually about 15psi.    With the front coil overs set to the lowest setting I still have some rake, and am within 1" of stock height.   Given the loading, you want to avoid any extra lift, it will negatively impact handling and exacerbate your COG problems. 

 

I adjusted the shocks initially and they all ended up with near the max rebound and compression damping.   I have not played with them in some years.   I have had one leak so far and it was replaced under warranty.    I have measured the temperature of the shocks after an hour of washboard at high speed and the shocks were a few degrees above ambient, but the reservoirs were hardly above ambient - so I am not convinced the reservoirs do much.    If I were to do it again, I would probably go with the normal OMEs as they appear to be more reliable.   I would certainly avoid the Kings, Icons and other performance shocks (performance is not really the goal with 1500 lbs of load) as they are even less reliable and require frequent rebuilds even with 'normal' loads. 

 

Overall I am happy with my setup and like being small and nimble, but I can definitely tell that I am heavy and drive accordingly. 

Late to the thread, but hopefully you'd share some knowledge with me as you seem to have a good grasp on this. 

 

I have a 2010 tacoma, trd or access cab. 

 

Recently purchased a fleet shell, 900 lbs. With everything else loaded, we are probably 1500 ish. 

 

What would you recommend running here? The camper will be full time on the truck, but not driven consistently. 

 

So much contradictory info out on the web, of course. 

 

Have timbrens, based on your post OME leafs, springs, and struts would suit me well? What specific parts? 

 

Thanks a ton for any guidance. 

 

I just want to make sure I put my family in a safe situation. 

 

Patrick

[rando]

I think the ARB/OME Dakar heavy duty kit would work well for your load:

https://arbusa.com/t...4x4-suspension/

 

With my load (probably a little more than 1500) I ended up with ~1" lift, which I am OK with. 

 

However, Christo Slee at Slee Offroad in Golden is far more knowledgeable than I and will set you up with what you need:

https://sleeoffroad....3/#front-struts

 

Based on personal experience, I would avoid the BP-51 and other high performance/reservoir shocks.  I have ~ 30K miles on mine and have already had to replace 2 *expensive* rear shocks.  In both cases the hose developed a pin hole leak.