12 replies to this topic

[ExplOregon]

Hey There,

 

I recently purchased one of the new Noco Genius 10 battery maintainer/charger. I have a hawk shell with a propane heater, fan and lights so not a ton of battery consumption. However, the truck and camper often sit for weeks at a time over the winter so I thought wiring up a battery monitor would be beneficial. Even more so with the current travel restrictions in place due to CV19.

 

I'm trying to figure out how best to mount the system, and I see two realistic options that don't require leaving the camper door open.

 

1. Drill a hole somewhere on the camper and mount a Noco AC port
2. Potentially use the Noco SAE adapter and plug in directly to the Zamp Solar port.

My main question is whether anyone knows if option 2 would even work. Can you use the Noco SAE adapter with the Zamp port? And from there, given the factory installed electrical system for the Hawk Shell, would the Noco Genius unit still charge and maintain the battery if plugged into the Zamp port?

 

The benefit of option one is that the Noco Genius is locked up safe and sound in the camper, but requires me drilling a 2 inch hole on the side of the camper.

 

Potential option two doesn't require any drilling, but the Genius 10 would have to remain outside of the camper and available for theft.

 

I'm open to any other suggestion as well. I'm a complete newbie on most things electrical. Appreciate any thoughts.

 

-ExplOregon

[canfindtom]

I have a Grandby shell camper.  I ran an short extension cord out the turnbuckle door, along side of the camper and out to where is is accessible at the back of the camper.  I counted the battery maintainer/charger in the battery compartment for convenience.  So, when needed I open the battery compartment door, plug it into the extension cord, and then connect the extension cord to power.  

 

it is a bit rudimentary - but has been working for me.  

 

I would love to install the Noco  AC Port but am very wary about penetrating the side of the camper - in particular because I have know idea where to safety locate the port.  

 

I suspect there are others out there with much more elegant solutions or know how and where to safety install the Noco Port.  

[m.r.h.]

Does your shell not have any exterior plug-in currently? 

 

I have a really similar Noco charger for keeping my camper battery charge as well as keeping motorcycle batters topped. So for now it is in and out of my camper. To charger my camper battery I just plug into shore power, which brings power to my 120 plugs. Plug it in, attach to batteries, and charge.

 

Seems like it would be beneficial in the long run to install the external port. Im sure more folks will chime in on where to put it but once you get over the initial shock it isn't too bad drilling to the camper. 

[ntsqd]

I take it that your camper has no 120 VAC system in it?

 

In our old camper I hard mounted a small charger next to the batteries and added a dedicated 120 VAC outlet that it was permanently plugged into. That way plugging in the camper turned on the charger. For the battery connection I connected to the battery side of the main breaker and to the camper side of the battery monitor's shunt in the ground cable by cutting off the clamps and adding ring terminals.

 

I haven't quite needed it as routinely in the new to us camper, so I've not yet made it a permanent thing but that is in the plans.

 

Could probably add the AC port to a junction box on the end of a properly strain-relieved pendant cord (SOOW?) so as to have to penetrate the camper wall. Or perhaps it could be down lower in the plywood sides below bed rail level?

[ExplOregon]

I have a Grandby shell camper.  I ran an short extension cord out the turnbuckle door, along side of the camper and out to where is is accessible at the back of the camper.  I counted the battery maintainer/charger in the battery compartment for convenience.  So, when needed I open the battery compartment door, plug it into the extension cord, and then connect the extension cord to power.  

 

it is a bit rudimentary - but has been working for me.  

 

I would love to install the Noco  AC Port but am very wary about penetrating the side of the camper - in particular because I have know idea where to safety locate the port.  

 

I suspect there are others out there with much more elegant solutions or know how and where to safety install the Noco Port.  

 

@canfindtom Doh! I didn't even think of the turnbuckle doors. I'll definitely keep that in mind as a back up option. Really don't want to drill a hole in the camper if I don't have too. 

 

Does your shell not have any exterior plug-in currently? 

 

I have a really similar Noco charger for keeping my camper battery charge as well as keeping motorcycle batters topped. So for now it is in and out of my camper. To charger my camper battery I just plug into shore power, which brings power to my 120 plugs. Plug it in, attach to batteries, and charge.

 

Seems like it would be beneficial in the long run to install the external port. Im sure more folks will chime in on where to put it but once you get over the initial shock it isn't too bad drilling to the camper. 

@m.r.h - No exterior plugs besides the Zamp solar outlet. And no 120v power system. Eventually I'll probably have to drill into the camper for the awning support. Currently mounted via the jack mounts.

[esimmers]

So here's the question: Is the Zamp port on the outside of your camper hooked directly to the battery or is there a solar charge controller located between the Zamp port and the battery?

 

If there's a solar charge controller in the line between the exterior Zamp port and the battery, that's not necessarily a deal breaker but it may be an added complication that you might not want to deal with.

 

The other issue with the Zamp port is that the port connector (often referred to as an SAE connector) has its polarity wired backwards compared to what is common usage. The Zamp folks have their reasons for doing this but since some folks may not be aware of this, certain complications may arise.

 

If you are willing to spend some time learning about connector polarity and hooking a battery charger to a battery, possibly through a solar charge controller, I compliment you.

 

But if you are looking for simplicity, I would suggest this: Buy and install that Noco AC port or something similar. It never hurts to have ready access inside your camper to a 120V ac connection and the AC port is an easily-installed way to do that. Then, inside your camper, you can simply plug in your battery charger to that AC port and clamp the NOCO charger leads to your battery to keep it charged when you camper is not in use.

 

One other thing that isn't clear from your description is this: how do you keep your camper battery charged when you're using your camper? Do you have solar? Are you relying on the truck's charging system to charge your camper house battery? I ask that because if you have a solar system you probably are able to fully charge your battery when the solar panel is in sunlight. If that's so, then you may not need a plug-in charger when your camper is stored. If you pull the battery fuses so that there's absolutely no discharge, a fully charged battery can go for several months without losing enough charge to worry about.

 

On the other hand, if you're relying on your truck's charging system to charge your battery, the voltage drop caused by the long cable from your truck's engine compartment to your camper battery probably prevents the camper battery from ever becoming fully charged. In this situation, it might be better to fully charge the camper battery with your new Noco charger (either in or out of the camper) and then just let the battery sit disconnected for a few months.

 

One last point is that your Noco charger appears to be a 10 amp charger. This is a pretty hefty charger that would normally be used to recharge a battery that is significantly discharged. Your camper battery capacity is probably in the 80 amp-hour range. Hopefully, you're not discharging it more than 50% to extend its life which means that you need to replace no more than 40-50 amp-hours to fully top off your battery. Since your Noco charge is a 10 amp charger, that means it should be able to recharge those lost 50 amp-hours in approximately 5 hours. 

 

Some people worry about keeping a battery charger connected to a fully-charged battery because of the danger of over charging. Your Noco charger probably does a good job of preventing over-charging but this is still something to keep in mind. In other words, a charger that is usually used merely to trickle-charge a battery during storage often has a rating of only 1 amp or even less.

 

All this is to say that you should go camping and have fun. But if you want to save a few hundred dollars in chargers and batteries over the years it's a good idea to read and study all the information you can find online about batteries, discharge, charging, etc.

 

Go have fun.

 

Ed

[ExplOregon]

So here's the question: Is the Zamp port on the outside of your camper hooked directly to the battery or is there a solar charge controller located between the Zamp port and the battery?

 

If there's a solar charge controller in the line between the exterior Zamp port and the battery, that's not necessarily a deal breaker but it may be an added complication that you might not want to deal with.

 

The other issue with the Zamp port is that the port connector (often referred to as an SAE connector) has its polarity wired backwards compared to what is common usage. The Zamp folks have their reasons for doing this but since some folks may not be aware of this, certain complications may arise.

 

If you are willing to spend some time learning about connector polarity and hooking a battery charger to a battery, possibly through a solar charge controller, I compliment you.

 

But if you are looking for simplicity, I would suggest this: Buy and install that Noco AC port or something similar. It never hurts to have ready access inside your camper to a 120V ac connection and the AC port is an easily-installed way to do that. Then, inside your camper, you can simply plug in your battery charger to that AC port and clamp the NOCO charger leads to your battery to keep it charged when you camper is not in use.

 

One other thing that isn't clear from your description is this: how do you keep your camper battery charged when you're using your camper? Do you have solar? Are you relying on the truck's charging system to charge your camper house battery? I ask that because if you have a solar system you probably are able to fully charge your battery when the solar panel is in sunlight. If that's so, then you may not need a plug-in charger when your camper is stored. If you pull the battery fuses so that there's absolutely no discharge, a fully charged battery can go for several months without losing enough charge to worry about.

 

On the other hand, if you're relying on your truck's charging system to charge your battery, the voltage drop caused by the long cable from your truck's engine compartment to your camper battery probably prevents the camper battery from ever becoming fully charged. In this situation, it might be better to fully charge the camper battery with your new Noco charger (either in or out of the camper) and then just let the battery sit disconnected for a few months.

 

One last point is that your Noco charger appears to be a 10 amp charger. This is a pretty hefty charger that would normally be used to recharge a battery that is significantly discharged. Your camper battery capacity is probably in the 80 amp-hour range. Hopefully, you're not discharging it more than 50% to extend its life which means that you need to replace no more than 40-50 amp-hours to fully top off your battery. Since your Noco charge is a 10 amp charger, that means it should be able to recharge those lost 50 amp-hours in approximately 5 hours. 

 

Some people worry about keeping a battery charger connected to a fully-charged battery because of the danger of over charging. Your Noco charger probably does a good job of preventing over-charging but this is still something to keep in mind. In other words, a charger that is usually used merely to trickle-charge a battery during storage often has a rating of only 1 amp or even less.

 

All this is to say that you should go camping and have fun. But if you want to save a few hundred dollars in chargers and batteries over the years it's a good idea to read and study all the information you can find online about batteries, discharge, charging, etc.

 

Go have fun.

 

Ed

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for taking the time with the lengthy reply.

 

Here are some of the answers to your questions.

1. I do not currently have solar panels or a solar charge controller. I may upgrade to solar in the future, but for now, the reason I went with the Noco unit is because the camper is stored under a cover when not in use so solar maintenance isn't an option. No access to sunlight.
2. I was aware of the reverse polarity of the Zamp SAE plug. I read in another forum that the Noco SAE adapter and the Zamp SAE plug had the same polarity and would work together, but I haven't been able to confirm that anywhere else, which is why I posted the question to this group.
3. If I go the AC plug route, I'll probably have it professionally installed as I don't trust myself. This is a zero mistakes project. I've had good interactions with the MULE expedition outfitters crew and their new location in Tualatin is close to my house. Just not sure how much it will cost to have them install it, but it's probably worth it in the long run.
4. The camper battery is being charged solely via running the truck.
5. I went with the Genius 10 since that one was rated for Trucks/SUVs and it had a faster recharge time than the other units. Figured overkill was better than under equipped.
6. I'm am aware than I shouldn't discharge the battery more than 50%. Since I don't currently have a battery monitor installed, I've been using a multimeter to monitor the voltage. With that said, I don't really know, while monitoring the voltage level, how low the voltage can drop to not exceed the 50% drop. Aka If I'm looking at the multimeter (let's say it says 12.2V), at what voltage should I stop and start to recharge the battery either by the Genius or running the truck?
7. With that said, if there is a better way to monitor the battery levels with a multimeter, I'd love to know.

Thanks!!

[esimmers]

ExplOregon,

 

Determining depth of battery discharge isn't real easy. That's because it's normally determined by measuring the voltage of the battery. But the battery needs to be completely disconnected from charging and/or loads for some time (2-12 hours) to get an accurate voltage reading. And who has time for that!

 

So another way is to know what the amp-hour capacity of the battery is, calculate what the loads are, and then calculate how many amp- hours have been used. That's not easy to do, either. The fancy way is to get a meter, like the Bogart system, that actually measures amps in and out and calculates for you when you've reached 50% discharge. But then those meters rely on programming in assumptions about your battery that may or may not be entirely accurate.

 

My guess is that since you have a propane furnace that you want to top off your camper battery every couple of days if you don't use your furnace and every day if you do. With your Noco charger, that shouldn't take too long, maybe a couple of hours. If your drive to a new location each day, your truck's charger may replenish your battery up to 85 or 90% which should get you through another day or two. But put that Noco charger on your battery as often as possible to bring your battery up to 100% which will not only give your more battery reserve but also prolong the life of your battery.

 

You don't say what kind of house battery you have, regular lead acid, marine deep cycle, or true AGM deep cycle. So it's hard to know what to tell you about depth of discharge. But you want to go camping, not fiddle around with voltage meters so I would say this: Wait a couple of hours after you're run something like a heater fan motor or any other large draw. Disconnect one of the battery terminals so there's no draw like from lights or the propane alarm. Measure the battery voltage. If it's 12.1 or 12.2 volts, it's probably discharged at least 50% which is all that's allowed if you want your battery to last more than one or two seasons. Don't measure the voltage when the battery is under load because that will give you a false low reading. Wait as long as possible with the battery disconnected before measuring voltage. There are lots of graphs online showing voltage vs. depth of discharge. But remember that these depend of the type of battery, the battery's age, etc. I say plug in your Noco every chance you get and just go camping.

 

Ed

[Vic Harder]

I'd try this route - $30 is a great deal for peace of mind.

[tothemtns]

I have a Hawk Shell with solar and dual 6 volt batteries. I’m looking to try and hardwire in with their provided adapters, a NOCO Genius 10. I want to do it myself, as an unnamed FWC dealer wants to charge me almost 200$ to wire in a NOCO.

My dual 6 volts have a bolt down style connection, with no battery post. What are my options to install the NOCO, since the provided connectors are too small to fit with the current bolt down system; cut the NOCO adapters and put bigger fittings? Is there an adapter that will work?

Thanks