13 replies to this topic

[Bluebeard]

Hey all - 

 

so I recently bought a 2012 chassis cab, flatbed, SRW diesel, crew cab F-350 to haul my FWC Grandby flatbed (on order, due in April).  According to the 2012 Ford brochure, my GVWR was meant to be 11,100#, amply sufficient to accommodate my 1700# Grandby.  However, after I got the truck home and bothered to check the door sticker, the listed GVWR is only 10,000# !!!! 

 

After my heart resumed beating and I had a chance to read through some Ford forums I found that this 10k GVWR sticker was a no-cost option at time of purchase, and that some folks want it because of lower registration fees in some places (and the ability to tow more without exceeding overall weight limits).

 

Trouble is, the truck weighs 8400# unladen, so my Grandby alone (no people, no stuff) will already put it 100# over weight.  I hate the idea of paying high insurance rates knowing the insurance company will likely pitch a fit and not pay in the event of an accident, claiming the truck was overloaded (even though it's really well within the safe load limits for the truck).

 

Anyone else run into this problem?  What did you do about it?  If anyone has up-rated the GVWR sticker I'd be very interested to hear the process.

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Mike

Edited by Bluebeard, 15 September 2020 - 07:39 AM.

[veryactivelife]

Interesting, following

[Happyjax]

I believe they still do that 10K option. I think t was so regular folk who had no intention of doing commercial activities would not get nailed with high insurance costs. I would guess you are probably okay as it was and is a known practice which does not affect the actual hauling capability of the truck but I am not a lawyer so take it with a boulder of salt

[Machinebuilder]

I have seen a lot of discussion about this on other forums,

 

the 10k GVWR is a downrating on paper. People do this to avoid higher registration/insurance costs in some states.

 

I have seen where there is a process to get it changed, BUT it seems like it is only available for some fleet operators or some upfitters.

 

Good luck and if you figure it out please post, I'm sure someone else might want to do it.

[moveinon]

I do not know where people get the idea that your insurance company will weigh your truck and camper if you get into a wreck to determine liability.  It has never happened in the US.  It does not even happen with trucks that are in wrecks where their back is full of gravel or stacked high with wood and are clearly way overweight.  You own your truck and camper even if they are totaled until you receive a final payment from your insurance company which settles the claim.  So even if asked to weigh, which wouldn’t happen, it is the owner decision not insurance company decision.  GVWR is an arbitrary number that is assigned for all kinds of reasons just as you mentioned one is to get under commercial classification in states where costs go up substantially.  It is reflective of the weakest components which are often the tires and springs.  There  are model years where those two components were the only changes made between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks.

[JaSAn]

I do not know where people get the idea that your insurance company will weigh your truck and camper if you get into a wreck to determine liability. . . .

GVWR is an arbitrary number that is assigned for all kinds of reasons . . .

 

When a vehicle is involved in an accident with injuries or fatalities they can be weighed.  When I drove a rollback I took vehicles directly to a CAT scale before the impound lot at the direction of the supervising police officer.  Insurance companies are always interested in anything that will lessen their liability; check the exclusions on your insurance policy.

 

GVWR is not an arbitrary number.  It is derived from SAE standards and procedures and has to be certified to the NHTSA.  Only a bonded upfitter can legally change the rating.  It reflects a number of safety standards including braking, dynamic stability and handling in addition to the manufacturers warrantee and ride requirements.

[CougarCouple]

Hello movinon

Fatalities are a different accident and there are laws that guide them. Insurance companies get all the data compiled by LEO during the investigation. I see mechanics inspect these vehicles it’s not just the mfg. data tags inspected. How well the vehicles are maintained is another item to be aware of. Like previous post nothing arbitrary, it’s pretty regulated in fatality accidents. If there is a lot of property damage I think that can also trigger investigation.

[moveinon]

This is a repost of an earlier discussion:

 

If you look in other places on this forum you can see this whole weight issue has been discussed to death with lots of differing opinions.  When I say arbitrary I mean there is general guidance and some strict requirements on how it can be changed, but it is not defined how weight or towing capacity is established in law or rule or even anything published or available from the truck companies about how they do it.  It is clear that it is not defined by only what the truck was engineered to haul or tow.  There have even been two pickups built where the only difference between the trucks was the springs and one was a 1/2 ton and one a 3/4 ton.  At other times whole sections of components were different between different weight rated trucks.  One year the only difference in axel weight was a different set of wheel bearings.  One year Chevrolet had 3/4 ton models with GVWR of 9,300, 9,500, 9,900, 10,000 lbs. and 1 ton sharing the same frame, front axle and front suspension, brakes, engine and drive train with GVWR of 10,400, 10,500, 10,700, 10,800, 11,000 pounds and the only difference with the 1 tons was an extra set of leaf springs and 18" tires with a higher load rating.  The only thing that we do know is that the load rating is often set by the weakest components on the truck and politically by general added cost and CDL requirements in some states for going over a certain poundage. Because manufacturers want trucks to ride like a car I think the weakest components on most 1/2 ton trucks for carrying weight are the shocks, springs and tires.  You can look at their towing capacity and you know the engine and drive train are rated for a much higher capacity than their weight rating.  As I have said before although I think most truck owners know that any truck could be modified to increase horsepower, increase MPG, shorten breaking distance, better the sound system, improve traction or other improvements there are still a lot of people that do not believe that modifications can safely increase the load carrying capacity of a truck (obviously modifications do not change official GVWR).  I am not one of them.

 

As for insurance and liability- for National US Accident data base used by lawyers and insurance companies with millions of accidents listed there has never been on record an accident where the truck and contents were weighed and liability established because of it.  But I guess there is always a first time.  

[CougarCouple]

Morning movinon
I googled a search for the data base and found this.


Is there a national database of car accidents? Technically, there is no national database of car accidents. ... The database, which can only be accessed and updated by insurance companies, is called C.L.U.E., which stands for the Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange.

I believe that the auto industry does do all the different weight ratings. Why is probably only known to the mfg. ( I’m being sarcastic) With out a doubt there is a reason, and probably expensive for the mfg. Either federal regulation or litigation reasons drive these many vehicle configurations might be my guess.

Not that some 1/2 ton trucks can’t carry campers, I feel our 3/4 ton really carries ours well. GVRW 10,000 loaded for travel 9,300 lbs. if nothing else public can use this information as guide lines.

Russ

[rando]

One of the primary points of insurance is to insure against your own negligence.   Now there can be a lot of discussion about what exactly is negligent, but not by the insurance company.  They will cover you if you are drunk, speeding, texting a driving etc or any number of far more egregious issues than being a 10% over GVWR.    They may decide to not renew your policy after the fact, but even that would be highly unlikely for something like the OP is considering.

 

I think the other thing that the OP's predicament disproves is that GVWR is based on some strict engineering analysis.  In his case his GVWR is based on a customer demand to reduce a regulatory issue, not on engineering at all.    There are a lot of things that go into GVWR, regulatory issues, market/sales issues and yes engineering issues, but we will never know which one sets the limit.    

 

To the OP: If your truck is happy with the weight, I wouldn't worry about getting the sticker changed, it is just a sticker. 

Edited by rando, 18 September 2020 - 02:00 AM.