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Changing insulation in the roof without removal

insulation

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#1 whatsawrench

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 05:28 AM

Hi! I'm another one of those folks who have been lurking here for months and finally getting ready to order an ATC camper. There are 5 of us (Mom and Dad, 3 little ones 6, 3, and 9 months currently). I plan to order a flatbed shell and do a custom interior build so we can all cram in there.

 

I have a 2006 Toyota Tundra 4WD DC. I am in the process of putting a Ute Ltd flatbed on it. I spoke with Jeff at All Terrain Camper for 15 minutes and he answered most of my questions. I have a question for y'all, the owners of All Terrain Campers:

 

Is it possible to remove the headliner material and install insulation material in the roof without completely removing the roof? If so, I plan to order the ATC camper without roof insulation (or even without the headliner installed), and install Thinsulate in place of the fiberglass. My main concern is condensation and leaks. I know both will happen. Thinsulate is hydrophobic and breathable, so it will air/dry out easier than fiberglass. Has anyone tried to replace the fiberglass with a different material?

 

There are 5 of us and we will be going to cold/wet places, sometimes for weeks (my mom lives in Vancouver, BC). So I don't mind doing extra work to minimize condensation and mildew/mold.

 

Thanks for all your great advice and input. I hope to get a build thread started once we finally get the camper!

 

--Sam 


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#2 Kolockum

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 04:11 PM

First welcome to the forum.

 

I replaced the fiberglass insulation with with a foam board on the FWC Eagle (which is constructed the same as a ATC camper). The only reason I did it was the fiberglass insulation in my 15 year old camper was getting pretty bad. Before I got the camper it was left outside for a few years with little maintenance. I honestly would not worry about changing the insulation as many here use these campers in the PNW with no problems.

 

But if you do decide to go that route I would send the insulation to the guys at ATC and have them install it when the camper is being built. If you tried to do it after the canvas has been installed it would be very hard to get the ceiling liner installed correctly and looking nice.


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2017 Toyota Tacoma with 2000 FWC Eagle

 

"The nut behind the wheel is the most important one. Don't forget to snug yourself up every once in a while." John D & ri-f

 


#3 Kolockum

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 04:14 PM

Just for reference here are some of the images from when I redid my ceiling.
 
IMAG0162
IMAG0163
IMAG0165
IMAG0173

 


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Toyota Tacoma with 2000 FWC Eagle

 

"The nut behind the wheel is the most important one. Don't forget to snug yourself up every once in a while." John D & ri-f

 


#4 ski3pin

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 04:22 PM

"if you do decide to go that route I would send the insulation to the guys at ATC and have them install it"

 

best option.

 


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2003 Ford Ranger FX4 Level II 2013 ATC Bobcat SE "And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."- Abraham Lincoln  http://ski3pin.blogspot.com/


#5 Casa Escarlata Robles Too

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 06:36 PM

"if you do decide to go that route I would send the insulation to the guys at ATC and have them install it"

 

best option.

Same here.Do it at time of build for a better job.

Frank


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#6 whatsawrench

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 09:06 PM

 

Just for reference here are some of the images from when I redid my ceiling.

 

Thank you for the photos, Kolockum. I searched everywhere and couldn't find what it looks like under the headliner from the inside. So glad I checked with you guys first!

 

Do you know anyone who tried to put a thin layer of insulation against the bottom of the C channels (I assume the headliner is stapled against it)? Since that C channel is in direct contact with the top of the roof, it would probably be a magnet for condensation. Would a thin insulation like Low E/EZ Cool help reduce condensation?


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#7 Kolockum

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:15 AM

Do you know anyone who tried to put a thin layer of insulation against the bottom of the C channels (I assume the headliner is stapled against it)? Since that C channel is in direct contact with the top of the roof, it would probably be a magnet for condensation. Would a thin insulation like Low E/EZ Cool help reduce condensation?

 

Those are actually 1"x1" thin wall aluminum tubing. I used reflectix as a replacement headliner and on really cold mornings I can see frost lines where the tubing is. It's going to happen regardless. The screw heads drip a lot but I think the factory staples that are buried in the wood do not condense to bad.

 

My 2 cents is send the insulation in to ATC if you want it installed then use the camper and see what changes you want to do. The walls of the camper also form some condensation and to some extent everything will collect condensation. The furnace is the best way to dry out the camper in the morning.


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Toyota Tacoma with 2000 FWC Eagle

 

"The nut behind the wheel is the most important one. Don't forget to snug yourself up every once in a while." John D & ri-f

 


#8 whatsawrench

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:47 AM

The screw heads drip a lot but I think the factory staples that are buried in the wood do not condense to bad.

 

 

Both you and Jeff from ATC mention wood above the headliner. Are there strips of wood attached to the aluminum tubing as a thermal break and provide backing to staple the headliner? (Sorry for the dumb question, but I can't find much detail about the insides of the ATC roof)

 

My goal is to reduce the condensation on the roof, in particular, the metal ribs if possible. My plan was to use Thinsulate between the ribs, then put EZ Cool/Low E over the aluminum tubing. Ez Cool/Low E is 1/4" thick, similar to Reflectix, adhesive on one side with micro closed cell foam instead of air pockets in between. It is a thermal insulator, although probably a minimal one. The goal is to create a thermal break between the aluminum tubing and the headliner to reduce condensation. Basically, like the way these guys did it in their van: https://faroutride.c...l-installation/  

 

But in case my stupid idea doesn't work, I needed a way to remove the headliner and try again. That's why I asked if the roof insulation can be changed without removing the roof.


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#9 Kolockum

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 05:33 AM

Some other members might have to correct me but I believe it goes tubing, cloth liner, wood strips. The wood strips provide a larger area of contact to hold up the liner. Prior to gutting I do not remember having any condensation issues with the wood strips. The only reason I gutted my roof was because of poor maintenance by the previous owners. 

 

You could always cut the Ez Cool/Low E into strips then glue them to the wood strips.


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Toyota Tacoma with 2000 FWC Eagle

 

"The nut behind the wheel is the most important one. Don't forget to snug yourself up every once in a while." John D & ri-f

 


#10 Vic Harder

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 08:21 PM

Have a look at my build thread starting here 

https://www.wanderth...-11#entry231391

 

I redid the insulation and ceiling liner without removing the roof.  It is holding up well.  


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