22 replies to this topic

[michelle_east_county]

' sounds like a good example of how no matter how good or bad the consumer product at one point in time, things may change for the better or worse from model year to model year. Perhaps Northstar determined most units were sold to fair weather weekend campers where the price point is more important than freeze protection.

[MikeR]

Have no doubt that was Northstar's thinking except they are charging more for the unit.  They are labeling these units as being rated as Sub Zero and charging $1,400 for the Sub Zero Package and making some pretty bold marketing claims as to the R-Value of these campers.  They claim an R value of 9 on the soft wall material which is higher than most hard sided campers and the equal of Lance's hard sided four season camper.  Its a three season camper, bottom line, so just market it and sell it that way instead of misleading consumers and charging for something they are not getting!

[Mtn Mike]

Have no doubt that was Northstar's thinking except they are charging more for the unit.  They are labeling these units as being rated as Sub Zero and charging $1,400 for the Sub Zero Package and making some pretty bold marketing claims as to the R-Value of these campers.  They claim an R value of 9 on the soft wall material which is higher than most hard sided campers and the equal of Lance's hard sided four season camper.  Its a three season camper, bottom line, so just market it and sell it that way instead of misleading consumers and charging for something they are not getting!

 

Have you looked at what it would take to insulate the water lines yourself? I plan to use my TC800 all winter. I was planning to leave my water system winterized and simply dry camp. But if you figure out a way to insulate those lines let us know. I've got no issues with the quality of our Northstar but I haven't camped below freezing yet. 

[michelle_east_county]

I’ll bet there’s some language about the softwall being sub-zero and while it implies the entire unit would be, there’s probably a sort of “Your mileage will vary” statement providing them legal cover. If not, I smell lawsuit. At minimum, a small claims case over additional cost of so-called sub-zero package and additional insulation, etc. Or, alone or as a class action with attorneys. You might talk to one who’ll at least theorize with one where the first visit is free. Funny, I can’t imagine a lot of money is saved by routing lines where they did. If they’re cutting corners there, I wonder where else a couple bucks were saved?

[MikeR]

Mtn Mike,

 

I agree with you on the quality of the Northstar build, of course with the exception of the Sub Zero Package.  I have not insulated the outside lines yet still debating on which route to go, insulate or reroute.  The entire soft, tent, portion of mine has to be replaced due to the delaminating and breaking down of the insulation in-between the vinyl layers.  Have no idea when this is supposed to happen they say they have no tents available for my model but new units are still showing up at dealers, so we shall see.  One of the reasons I went with the Northstar was the Sub Zero Package so I didn't have to dry camp, been there done that enough and if I have to go back to that I'll go back to a tent or the back of the truck and save a lot of money and stress and spend more time hiking instead of fixing new stuff  

 

Michelle,

 

I am sure I would have the basis for legal action but that is not for me.  I do not feel what happened is not right but not going to go thru that whole process and stress but I do very much thank you for and welcome your comments!!

[Mtn Mike]

 

 

Well after some tracing and investigation I figured out that Northstar ran the water lines from the water pump, water heater, outside the heated, insulated portion of the camper around the refrigerator to the kitchen faucet and did not insulate them.  The only thing protecting these two water lines from the elements was a small, plastic, vented cover to access the bottom of the fridge which provides no R value that I could think of.  Kinda frustrating.  Anyway after a few hours in the nice MT sun the next day I thawed but froze again the next night cause it was down to around 11 again.  I did wrap the water lines with a couple of hand towels but not enough.

 

All I'm saying is if you have one of these campers and plan on going where its going to get cold take precautions.  Good news, even though the water lines froze two nights, I got the issue figured out the third, no damage was done.  FYI

 

 

 

Did you ever figure out a work-around for the exposed water lines? We just took our TC800 with subzero package winter camping. Everything worked great but we were dry camping. I'm considering filling the tanks for the next trip. I checked my TC800 and (edit) I also have pex lines exposed behind the fridge. I'm not worried about the pex freezing except it would block my water. So...my current idea is to block some or all of the outside vents on my fridge. The fridge will work better in cold weather that way anyway, and hopefully the compartment will retain enough heat to keep my water lines from freezing. 

Edited by Mtn Mike, 28 December 2020 - 02:44 AM.

[MikeR]

I haven't done anything with the lines yet besides zip tie a hand towel around the exposed lines, got sidetracked with other hobbies/projects.  I am on a two week trip to Tucson, on the return half outside of Bryce Canyon tonight where it is supposed to get down to 8, so far no problems.  I have had three nights on this trip where it got down below freezing, 19 the lowest, but the days have been in the 40's at least with lots of sun to help keep things thawed.  I think the big issues are going to come on the multiple days and nights well below freezing like I had in MT earlier in the year.  Like you said it shouldn't hurt the pex, might crack an elbow though.  When I take it back in for my other warranty work I will probably have them reroute the lines under the fridge to keep them inside where I can keep them warm.  Let us know how your camping goes with water!!

[MikeR]

Hey Mike, got to 11 last night no issues.  I did forget to mention when its been getting this cold I have been leaving the kitchen sink door, the water access door and the cover to the water tank access open at night so heat can reach them.  Also as an added protection I have been turning off the water pump and leaving the kitchen faucet open.  Also, if you haven't thought of it I recommend putting some RV antifreeze in your cassette toilet if you have one and use it and also in your grey water tank if you keep anything in there which I have not been since that is the first thing that freezes.  Happy New Year!!

[henrys]

Hey Mike, got to 11 last night no issues.

 

Can you describe what modifications you made to keep your pipes from freezing on your 850SC? I'm camping in the cold and would like to use my sink. I have a 2020 850SC and too noticed they ran the lines behind the refrigerator which is outside of the heated space. It looks like there's room to run the lines under the front of the fridge following the sink drain pipe but if you were able to find an easier solution I would like to know what it is. Could I simply wrap the pipes behind the fridge with some foam insulation?

 

Have you noticed your shower lines freeze up too? I left the door below the shower open but it doesn't seem to keep those lines warm enough to keep from freezing. 

[MikeR]

I had my shower lines freeze one night, ironically it was the hot line that froze in my shower and the cold line in my sink.  The dealer thought it was a back up in the system from the sink freezing, not sure?  The only times I have froze the lines were after two days of below freezing and not realizing the situation with the lines outside.  Since then when its going to get in the teens or below I leave the kitchen sink door open, the water heater access door open and take the cover off the water tank/battery access at night.  I also turn off the water pump and drain off the kitchen sink faucet and leave it open.  You might try that on your shower as well??  As far as rerouting the lines my dealer has offered to do that for me but I'm still on the fence.  So far I just have a hand towel wrapped around the outside lines and zip tied in place and its working so far.  Another thing I do is when I have to get up in the middle of the night I turn on the water pump and run the sink for just a little bit to circulate water and wash my hands then turn off the pump again and drain off the faucet.  When traveling, when I stop for fuel I make sure the camper stays in the upper 30's at least.  If it's not I run the furnace for a while.  Hope this helps, been there done that and it sucks.  Please keep me posted!!