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Couple things I noticed at 5 degrees F.


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#11 patrkbukly

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 06:41 PM

2016 Granby here....and I have learned the following over the last few years winter camping here at 10,000 feet;

The FWC does little to insulate from outside temps in serious cold. If 0F outside without furnace during the night you will near 0F inside during the night. So know that and operate accordingly.

 

If temps will be below about 25F have no water anywhere in the systems. 

Not in the hot water heater,

not in the lines,

not in the tank,

Not in shower faucet lines,

not in the toilet flush tank (if you have one).

It will eventually freeze and break a line, split a plastic fitting or ruin your water pump (all known from experience).

Just drain it all and Ive never had an issue since doing so. 

 

I always pour a small pot of water and leave it on the stove overnight. Even if it freezes I just light the stove and wallah...coffee ready.

I  keep two 1 gallon water jugs during these times and even if they mostly freeze in the camper overnight there is still some water enough to boil on the stove and hold a jug over it and you have water to use pretty quick. 

 

I camp in Silvethorne and Dillon CO 3 nights a week. 

This week we had -10 windchill one night but in general we get down close to 0 each night (this is a regular mercury thermometer in my Granby so I consider that an accurate "feels like" read as opposed to just whats posted on a cellphone weather app)

Jugs mostly froze left a little unfrozen. Stay cozy and warm with the furnace going to bed, turn back on when you get up and be toasty while you have your coffee etc in 72F with the furnace running....all good. 

 

I spoke with FWC about a possible lower speed furnace fan but does'nt seem doable with my FWC provided Atwood as it is.

 

I did do something recently that has reduced the on off cycling of the furnace and I am happy with the results....

I moved the thermostat to the cabinet wall facing the bed as opposed to where FWC delivered it with it facing the frig. Just doing that which now moves it away from the furnace vent exposing it to a more "overall inside temp" as opposed to less than 24" from the furnace vent has reduced cycling. 

 

I may do some actual furnace cycling time trials soon and post. I did that last week and found;

  • at 0F outside
  • with the thermal pack installed
  • Thermostat set at 50F
  • I was getting approximately 5 minutes of run time with the furnace
  • 2.5 minues off
  • Then 5 mnutes run time again.

Also I give the camper credit for the furnace's effeciency. One thing I really love about it is that even if it gets bitter cold, the furnace turned on will typically move the temp 20 degrees in less that 10 minutes so getting back to a comfortable enviornment is easy.

 

I hope some of this helps. 


Edited by patrkbukly, 21 December 2020 - 11:43 PM.

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#12 steve whiteside

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 10:19 PM

Wow, thanks for the great info and insight.  It seems I dodged a bullet- not breaking my water system.  Im hating the idea of water jugs vs the water tank just from a "more clutter more crap" POV.  I guess a necessary evil.  Good idea on the small pot of water ready for coffee the next morning.  

 

I will have to read the manual and figure out how to drain everything.  

 

Thanks again,  Steve


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#13 steve whiteside

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 10:24 PM

Where did you camp in mammoth? Not a very stealth friendly place.

 

A couple thoughts:

1. Consider draining the water system and running off of water containers to avoid possible damage

2. if not, then run the water heater up to max and drain it back down into the holding tank to minimize freezing issues over night. I have been considering shut off valves at the tank and at the manifold to isolate out the drain line and the exterior shower lines, but have not implemented.

3. Buy and install a garage thermostat with a lower set point for night time use, 35 or 40 would be good

4. earplugs if you run the heater all night

5. I think you got lucky with the condensation issue, two people will be worse, but warmer for sleeping.

6, crank the heat in the AM to make it easier to drop the top. 

I camped down by the airport at the natural hot springs.  It gave me about a 30-40 minute drive to my parking area.  Others were camping on the mammoth scenic loop, which is closer.  I thought the hot springs were ideal.  It gave me something to do in a pleasurable way mid afternoon or later as I was done skiing.  Met some interesting characters and took the edge off of the social isolation of camping by myself/skiing by myself.  Over my 3 days of camping and skiing I got to recognize the same rigs/people both at the hot springs and the resort.  


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#14 Wallowa

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 01:21 AM

Pat...good download of information...thanks...your '16 Granby has the thermostat mounted differently than my '16 Hawk; mine is on top of the left cabinet near front wall and 10" from bed...I can lean out and turn it off or on....

 

Forgot about flush water in porta-potty [yes, a wife convenience, I always prefer outside]...will add something to prevent it from freezing, perhaps the deodorizer tabs will do that...

 

Coffee and chocolate = two essential food groups...I carry a Jetboil, in case I can't get the top up or run out of propane...morning coffee is not an optional item, it is a life giving start to each day!

 

Hope for snow...entire month of February I plan to drag my Hawk across Washington, Idaho, Montana skiing...all water drained...7 gallon water jug with great spigot..forget getting a shower, where can I wax my skis? 

 

Oh, I carry a dozen or more 24 hour chemical heat packets....just in case...not for me, for the coffee water. B)

 

Phil

 

Ps...If you see a gray '05 Tundra / '16 Hawk with a GD sticker on rear window...stop by; no mask required.


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#15 patrkbukly

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 02:48 AM



Pat...good download of information...thanks...your '16 Granby has the thermostat mounted differently than my '16 Hawk; mine is on top of the left cabinet near front wall and 10" from bed...I can lean out and turn it off or on....

 

Forgot about flush water in porta-potty [yes, a wife convenience, I always prefer outside]...will add something to prevent it from freezing, perhaps the deodorizer tabs will do that...

 

Coffee and chocolate = two essential food groups...I carry a Jetboil, in case I can't get the top up or run out of propane...morning coffee is not an optional item, it is a life giving start to each day!

 

Hope for snow...entire month of February I plan to drag my Hawk across Washington, Idaho, Montana skiing...all water drained...7 gallon water jug with great spigot..forget getting a shower, where can I wax my skis? 

 

Oh, I carry a dozen or more 24 hour chemical heat packets....just in case...not for me, for the coffee water. B)

 

Phil

 

Ps...If you see a gray '05 Tundra / '16 Hawk with a GD sticker on rear window...stop by; no mask required.

Hey Phil,

sounds like they got the thermostat location improvement done right on your so thats a good thing.

 

I'm the same coffee addict, I can do without lots of things but that ain't one of em.

 

JEtboil is an awesome tool. Ive got one too (just in case). 

 

Likewise on the connection...if you see my rig, come on over. 

This is my 2 nights a week spot.

ACtC-3dvq2sZQu5IEgpqkRjPO09_R11jejMBICI9


Edited by patrkbukly, 22 December 2020 - 02:50 AM.

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#16 Your Mileage May Vary

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 02:53 AM

To keep the "clean" or rinse water from freezing I normally add a liberal amount of really cheap vodka. So far I have had it down to ~5* and it has worked really well. I haven't tried it yet but you could probably go with some flavored vodka to get a refreshing smell.

That's alcohol abuse.

 

Have you thought of winter windshield washer fluid? Stuff I use is good to -40 degrees.


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#17 Kolockum

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 03:18 AM

That's alcohol abuse.

 

Have you thought of winter windshield washer fluid? Stuff I use is good to -40 degrees.

 

After my experiences in college I can hardly consider cheap vodka anything more than rubbing alcohol.  :D 

 

I have thought about RV antifreeze or windshield fluid but want something more organic in the off chance I have to dump it into a vault or pit toilet.


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#18 Wallowa

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 03:33 AM



After my experiences in college I can hardly consider cheap vodka anything more than rubbing alcohol.  :D

 

I have thought about RV antifreeze or windshield fluid but want something more organic in the off chance I have to dump it into a vault or pit toilet.

 

 

Windshield washer fluid....what a great idea! 

 

 

Kolo:  Hey....OK, to dump in outhouse; you don't what that stuff [in the outhouse.. :ph34r: ] to freeze!

 

Pat..Wish I could look you up....that is some beautiful country but a long way from the NE corner of Oregon..

 

Phil


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#19 patrkbukly

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 03:48 AM



Windshield washer fluid....what a great idea! 

 

 

Kolo:  Hey....OK, to dump in outhouse; you don't what that stuff [in the outhouse.. :ph34r: ] to freeze!

 

Pat..Wish I could look you up....that is some beautiful country but a long way from the NE corner of Oregon..

 

Phil

Pre covid i get to Rainier and Hood once a year so maybe in 2021.


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#20 camper rich

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 04:01 AM

RV antifreeze not as poisonous and regular antifreeze.  A quick search found this:  

 

PROPYLENE GLYCOL – This type of antifreeze is only available in RV shops. It is non-toxic and the safest for all types of RV plumbing. This antifreeze is non-flammable and does not taint water systems. Propylene glycol is a lubricant and will actually work to extend the life of the seals in your toilets and faucets.

 

Regular antifreeze is ethylyn glycol--very poisonous to pets and people.  

 

I doubt just adding the toilet chemical to the water will keep it from freezing.  You may want to experiment with that at home.  


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