61 replies to this topic

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

0h well. Back to cast iron cooking!

Exactly Rob,a lot more fun and makes yummy food.

Frank

[rando]

I am certainly not a CPA, and I can't really claim to be knowledgable enough to discuss current incentives, subsidies and tax breaks.   I do agree that the difference between tax credits, generally applicable tax deductions and industry specific tax deductions is very murky, and is way beyond what I care to invest in researching tax codes.

 

My previous point was that over the past century both the automotive industry and fossil fuel industry have been recipients of government largess through credits, tax breaks, loans etc which makes determining a level playing field very, very difficult.  It does seem that the tide is turning for this government largess (at least in the US and Europe),  but I don't think we can ignore the history here. 

 

Without having to go back too far ,and just considering the US, we can see TARP provided ~$80 Billion in loans to the automotive industry in 2008 at an eventual cost of $11B to the taxpayers.    The coal industry has received about $1.5B in credits for coal gasification, and the non-conventional fuels tax credit provided  $10's of billions in credits to incentivize 'new' domestic gas production techniques like fracking and coal seam methane in the 70s - 10's.   This is just what I am aware of in the recent past in the US, I am sure this is the tip of the iceberg, particularly when you consider other countries, that are still providing billions in direct subsidies to global oil and gas companies. 

[fuzzymarindave]

I am happy to concentrate on the pros and cons of different technologies on a fair and level playing field.
 
The simple fact is the electric vehicle industry is being subsidized by our taxpayer money that can be measured in not just hundreds-of-millions, but billions of dollars. The well has already been poisoned and it will never be a fair and level playing field since the advanced technologies being developed will continue to benefit those same companies for an indefinite amount of time. Any fair discussion must include these details.
 
And this is not an opinion - these are facts.

I’m truly interested in learning more. However just saying “these are the facts” does not make it so. Links to legitimate research would be most helpful.

[2Z Bundok]

This thread got serious quickly with good important points, so not to down play but, recently saw this dream from Tesla!

 

[buckland]

What a hoot!... Makes me go back in time to elementary school when we got the "Weekly Reader" magazine... "by 1985 we well be zooming our way to work in flying cars!" That baby would cost as much as a house! But it sure looks like fun.

[moveinon]

I took advantage of the tax breaks and bought an EV.  I have now driven a Tesla model 3 long range for over two years.  I have owned 7 pickups, 11 RV’s, 7 vans, 3 sports cars, 2 SUVs, 17 other gas cars so have some diverse experience.  The Tesla is clearly the fastest car I have ever owned with low end torque off the charts.  It is absolutely quiet.  With the low center of gravity it corners very similar to a true sports car.  The first maintenance will be at over 120,000 miles except for tire rotation and wind shield wipers and washer fluid.  Rarely use the brakes because of regenerative braking so expect brakes to last about that mileage also.  The front of the car is wide open for extra locked storage because of no engine there.  Costs me a little over $15.00 a month for home electricity and a little more for occasional recharges on the road for longer trips.  It is the first car that I have owned where I can say in over 80,000 miles the only maintenance work has been to rotate tires and fill the washer fluid -not a single repair or warranty fix needed nor any of the other expensive work that I have always had to do by this point.  Tesla rental cars in a LA rental fleet are regularly running over 500,000 miles and still dependable.  I would love to have these benefits in my truck which sure do not exist in any ICE truck as well as the big EV battery to power the entire camper and get rid of propane, extra gas, camper batteries and solar panels entirely (and all of the weight and cost they add).  I don’t cold camp or tow when camping so the only problem for me is the range, although I carry extra gas now because I don’t have the range in my existing truck.  The Tesla safe range for my model 3 is about 300 miles-supposed to have max of 329 miles.  If the camper was totally electric a EV truck battery would need more capacity than the model 3 battery and I would still, probably for a few trips need to carry a generator and gas for it because solar just does not cut it for charging a big capacity battery and charging stations are not located close to where I often take the truck camper.  But if a well made truck like my Tesla hits the market with a 750 to 800 mile range with even a close competitive price my camper would be on it and I would be all in.

[buckland]

Well said.

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I like your post moveinon. Great to hear from a real Tesla owner.

There are several Teslas in my home area.

I haven't gotten to talk to any though.

 

Thanks for the info.

Frank

[ckent323]

moveinon,

 

If you have a reference for the Tesla rental car data please post a link.  In particular, somthing that shows what company has a fleet of cars with 500,000 miles on them.

I did a quick search and could not find that data.

 

I have read that Tesla model S vehicles went into rental car service at MPG Car Rental in Venice and Exotic car rentals in 2013, as well as  few in the Hertz exotic car rental fleet in 2019.  But it is my impression that these rental fleets comprise a small number of Teslas.

I am aware that many of the large rental car companies (Avis, Hertz, National, Enterprise, etc) sell used rental cars after a year or two and many have pretty low miles (under 80,000) 

https://www.enterpri...ist/used-tesla/

 

I read that recently there were two large fleets of Tesla model 3s comprising 8,614 cars in Norway and 8,585 vehicles in the Netherlands delivered in 2019. 

There are reports of issues in at least one model 3 European  rental fleet.

https://electrek.co/...quality-issues/

 

 

I know 4 people who own Teslas, 3 have model S and one has a model 3.  All seem happy with their cars but none of them have over 100,000 miles on their car.

Edited by ckent323, 11 April 2021 - 12:19 AM.

[ckent323]

I just found the following article on a Tesla model s that has the most miles, 400,000, of any known Tesla.  It is dated from July 2018.

https://electrek.co/...-miles-3-years/



As of Oct 2020 the highest miles for a Tesla is 750,000  but it has new batteries and motors too.

https://insideevs.co...-million-miles/


and here is an article on the Tesloop fleet which as of Nov 2019 had several vehicles with over 300,000 miles.

 

https://www.digitalt...ext=The company's%20fleet%20of%20seven,crop%20up%20after%20hard%20use.

Craig