37 replies to this topic

[ckent323]

moveinon,

 

If you have a reference for the Tesla rental car data please post a link.  In particular, somthing that shows what company has a fleet of cars with 500,000 miles on them.

I did a quick search and could not find that data.

 

I have read that Tesla model S vehicles went into rental car service at MPG Car Rental in Venice and Exotic car rentals in 2013, as well as  few in the Hertz exotic car rental fleet in 2019.  But it is my impression that these rental fleets comprise a small number of Teslas.

I am aware that many of the large rental car companies (Avis, Hertz, National, Enterprise, etc) sell used rental cars after a year or two and many have pretty low miles (under 80,000) 

https://www.enterpri...ist/used-tesla/

 

I read that recently there were two large fleets of Tesla model 3s comprising 8,614 cars in Norway and 8,585 vehicles in the Netherlands delivered in 2019. 

There are reports of issues in at least one model 3 European  rental fleet.

https://electrek.co/...quality-issues/

 

 

I know 4 people who own Teslas, 3 have model S and one has a model 3.  All seem happy with their cars but none of them have over 100,000 miles on their car.

Edited by ckent323, 11 April 2021 - 12:19 AM.

[ckent323]

I just found the following article on a Tesla model s that has the most miles, 400,000, of any known Tesla.  It is dated from July 2018.

https://electrek.co/...-miles-3-years/



As of Oct 2020 the highest miles for a Tesla is 750,000  but it has new batteries and motors too.

https://insideevs.co...-million-miles/


and here is an article on the Tesloop fleet which as of Nov 2019 had several vehicles with over 300,000 miles.

 

https://www.digitalt...ext=The company's%20fleet%20of%20seven,crop%20up%20after%20hard%20use.

Craig

[rando]

I don't have the links that you are looking for, but from an engineering standpoint it makes total sense that an EV would have lower maintenance, and at least eventually, much higher reliability.   

 

There are far fewer moving parts and wear items in an EV than in a ICE vehicle.  Going off a WAG there must be 1/10 the number of moving parts compared to a vehicle with 4,6,8 cylinders, transmission, exhaust system, cooling etc.   Furthermore none of those are exposed to exhaust gases, combustion byproducts, or under go near the thermal stresses in a combustion engine.   There is far less heat to get rid of as the motors are far more efficient, and the brakes are rarely used, so heat and wear there is also much lower. 

 

In some ways the engineering in EVs is not as mature as ICE vehicles that have been continuously under development for decades, so the absolute reliability numbers may not be there yet, but they surely will be better in time.   The body and chassis are not much different, and electric motors are extremely mature tech, it is more a matter of integration. 

[JaSAn]

I would urge caution on reliability.    The hype train on EVs is blowing its whistle too loud to get a good picture on what the downsides are.  I have had to replace trucks for two reasons: electronic failures and body disintegration (Minnesota winters are hard on bodies).

My last two trucks:

 

1976 Nissan 4X4 - sold to a junk yard at 429,000 miles when I was looking at replacing a fuel pump control module for the third time.  Body was shot; had replaced door hinges and latches at least twice.  The junk yard is still using it for a parts getter with who knows how many miles on it.  Only major repair was it spun a tail shaft bearing in the tranny.

 

1992 Dodge 1500 4X4 - sold it at 308,000 miles to a neighbor kid cheap because the body was rusting away, the passenger door was frozen shut, and the electric windows only kind of/sort of worked.  Replaced the ECM once.

 

My point is that for me it was never the drive train that was the limiting factor on vehicle life; it was body and electronics that went bad.  There is just not enough information on what happens to all those electronic drive train components when constantly subjected to our salty slush.

[ckent323]

rando - No argument . 

I am simply looking for facts and data.  Too many years as a systems engineer in the Space business to rely on anecdotal evidence I guess.

;-)
 

Edited by ckent323, 11 April 2021 - 05:58 AM.

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

No experience with EV yet but I recognize it’s coming...and I think that’s good. In terms of range, EV is going through all the same growing pains ICEs did early in the last century. And while some are not fans of the visual background of wind turbines or solar farms, IMO it sure beats the smoke and stench of drilling platforms/pumps/refineries required to produce gas and diesel. 
 

moveinon: $15/month to charge your Model 3? Sign me up! I send an average $500/month to Chevron for 2 vehicles which is less than I used to pay before I retired. As mentioned many times, range and the time required to recharge while traveling are the two issues for me. I have to believe that if we can put people on Mars in my lifetime 🤞 we can figure this out. In the meantime, greatly improved fuel efficiency from ICEs and hybrids can bridge the gap. 

[rando]

rando - No argument . 

I am simply looking for facts and data.  Too many years as a systems engineer in the Space business to rely on anecdotal evidence I guess.

;-)
 

 

I think both Consumer Reports and AAA have looked into comparing repair costs between EVs and ICE and conclude the repair costs are about 1/2 - 2/3 for EVs.     This does not necessarily mean increased reliability, as there is much less preventative maintenance (oil changes etc) for EVs.  But even if the reliability is not there yet, from a systems engineering perspective it seems like it is inevitable.   In terms of development, EVs are still toddlers in comparison to ICE being wizened geezers.

 

I have no idea if this a reliable source, but if you look at the 'top 10 most common car repairs', none of them are applicable to EVs:

https://www.credit.c...of-2015-141786/

[moveinon]

ckent323-I do not have the link for the article I read, but know it was a ‘tesloop fleet of 7 shuttle  cars in California.  Sorry about the reference to rental fleet, obviously a shuttle fleet is not the same thing.  Because of owning one I get a lot of Tesla reading and I remember a lot of the articles but not which newsletter they came from.  And I know all kinds of repair work needed to be done on those cars as well as battery degradation.  They also had earlier model Teslas and a lot of early issues were fixed but was the only data I had seen on long mileage durability.  Not a big group but regular drivers would never put that many miles on this quickly.

 

Mighty Dodge Ram- I know $15.00+ a month seams ridiculous for cost.  But I am part of a experimental data collection initiative on EV’s by PGE (electric utility) and have an attached monitor that gives me electric usage, cost and charging frequency and time on a monthly basis (and reimburses me almost all of these electric costs for participation) so have much more accurate data than would be normal.  So I guess I could really say my actual cost to drive the Tesla is free or a few pennies a month.  Oregon is 44th in the nation for electricity cost which also helps -all that rain and those dams here is good for something I guess.

 

Rando-  I agree about EV’s being in toddler time.  My car regularly sends me emails which is a unique experience in itself.  I have gotten ones from my car that say my range has been changed from 311 miles to 329 miles, that I have a new dog inside feature, that my security has been camera improved, or a brand new maintenance schedule and new autopilot features to have my car drive to me.  With little history and these changes happening all of the time it is very difficult to get any kind of consistent historical evaluation of my car at all. My car is a single engine long range Model 3 -that car does not exist any more.  By the time Consumer Reports gets information from readers/owners or does its own evaluation the car has substantially changed from what they evaluated.  And at least Tesla changed a number of items before the Model 3 came out to fix areas where they were having to repair components of the earlier models so historical repair data does not fit later cars ether.