64 replies to this topic

[BryanToyFWC]

The rough cost for my lithium battery and solar power system:
200 Ah battery $1250 ahipped
Victron Orion Smart 12/12-30 isolated dc to dc charger $265
Victron Smart MPPT 100/30 solar charger $220
Victron Battery monitor BMV-712 $210
Blue Seas bus bars and fuse block $120
6awg wire, lugs, wiring incidentals $150
Renogy 200watt solar panels (two) $600

Never worrying about having enough electrical energy: priceless

If I was doing it again I’d probably do a single 320 watt panel instead.

Wowza!  I may go AGM while I learn more and save my pennies for this change later down the road.

[rando]

Jon has a very nice system!    If you do decide you need a new battery, you can get started with lithium for a lot less.  But figure out what is going on first, and see if you have a problem before you throw money at it. 

[Wallowa]

Lithium technology has awesome potential, but it is far from a plug-and-play proposition at this point. Please read this for some background information.

 

Thanks for the link, I get Overland Journal but missed that info,  what really caught my eye was all the Bluetooth data that each battery monitors and transmits...excellent; beats my Victron 712 monitor...might mention that BB currently does have a built in heating element for cold weather use...wish BB also had the built-in Bluetooth monitoring that the Anti-Gravity has...I also have carried the small Li Antigravity on my motorcycles for several years..

Edited by Wallowa, 24 July 2021 - 03:51 PM.

[Beach]

If you want to keep it simple and minimize cost, stay with AGM batteries, but be sure to get true deep cycle type, DO NOT get dual purpose type, like Optima etc. 2 new healthy 24 series batteries might cure your ills, but if you need more capacity, consider moving up to a 27 or 31 series battery, unless weight is an issue. Good advice given in above posts, you absolutely need enough panel output to recharge fully during the day. Last year I replaced my Optima with a Renogy 100ah AGM deep cycle last year, it is a big improvement.

[goinoregon]

myself, i would go lithium.  if u stay with agm, i would purchase from local FWC dealer, and have them evaluate your setup, and see what they recommend.  they could install a controller, shunt , etc., for not too much $.

u can then spend your time and effort on operating and monitoring system, vs trying to determine each and every component.  i have a victron solar controller, and it is nice to just connect via bluetooth with your phone, and see what is going on with both solar and battery.

go

[BryanToyFWC]

myself, i would go lithium. if u stay with agm, i would purchase from local FWC dealer, and have them evaluate your setup, and see what they recommend. they could install a controller, shunt , etc., for not too much $.
u can then spend your time and effort on operating and monitoring system, vs trying to determine each and every component. i have a victron solar controller, and it is nice to just connect via bluetooth with your phone, and see what is going on with both solar and battery.
go

Thanks!!! Would love to do that, except my local FWC dealer has been totally unresponsive to requests to do just that. I’ve reached out on at least three occasions and heard crickets. It’s sort of crazy really, but they must have enough business. So I’m on my own to figure it out.

[Jon R]

Bryan,

Do you know what your usage of the camper is going to be in terms of overall trip duration, how much driving typically each day, and typical weather and shade conditions relevant to solar charging? It may be that a less expensive approach could be identified based on your usage, with the ability to expand your system later.

For example, if you only did weekend trips of 3 days or less, you could use a 100 to 200 ah lithium battery and just charge it at home before each trip. Or maybe only do a dc to dc charger and do solar later.

Edited by Jon R, 27 July 2021 - 09:03 PM.

[BryanToyFWC]

Bryan,

Do you know what your usage of the camper is going to be in terms of overall trip duration, how much driving typically each day, and typical weather and shade conditions relevant to solar charging? It may be that a less expensive approach could be identified based on your usage, with the ability to expand your system later.

For example, if you only did weekend trips of 3 days or less, you could use a 100 to 200 ah lithium battery and just charge it at home before each trip. Or maybe only do a dc to dc charger and do solar later.

Thanks Jon, just getting back to this forum.

 

We use the camper for both 1 night quick camps to 6-8 night mostly off grid adventures.  We have an additional portable solar panel that we haven't used yet but will be bringing that with on the next longer trip.  We do a lot in sunny CO and UT, but want to extend out further west where we know there are more clouds (or smoke clouds).  

 

Seeing as though my fully charged batteries won't last even one night, I know I need new ones.  Went to order similar AGMs for simplicity, I found most of the good ones in the right size sold out....go figure inventory issues.  Lithium batteries are all in stock, ugh...back to square zero. 

[Wallowa]

Bryan,

 

Yes, we are also smoked in up here in NE Oregon, surrounded by fires and smoke coming from 800+ miles away....going to be a long Summer!

 

Lots of information on Li vs AGMs...I went to Li after my FWC AGMs faded into the sunset....in the Winter on a ski trip....not much heat without electricity and in below zero...OK why did I go Li..

 

#1  They have at least 3-4X the life expectance of AGM...

#2  Putting pencil to paper and the cost of Li becomes less than AGM over the years..

#3 You can draw down, get usable Watts, out of them to zero and then recharge them without damage...50% draw       down for AGM and below that you cut into the lifetime of the AGM.

#4 You can recharge Li batteries faster than AGM...they will handle more incoming amps.

#5  Lastly for me the most important, the dependability along with longevity sealed the deal...as they say, the BB         will probably outlast me..

 

I went the full Monty: 160 & 170w Zamp panels, Victron MPPT 100/30, Victron IP67 25 amp 100v charger, Victron BMV-712 w/battery temp sensor, Victron Orion DC/DC 30 amp charger [4 awg] and a 100ah, heated, Battle Born.

 

No more worries about running out of juice on the White Rim or anywhere in BFE; just the way I went and of course I could be wrong!      

 

Honestly, transitioning from carrying my gear on my back or in my sea kayak to the Hawk....well, do you really need electricity? Yes, but only to start the Tundra...

 

 

Good luck,

Phil

Edited by Wallowa, 08 August 2021 - 10:52 PM.

[BryanToyFWC]

Bryan,

 

Yes, we are also smoked in up here in NE Oregon, surrounded by fires and smoke coming from 800+ miles away....going to be a long Summer!

 

Lots of information on Li vs AGMs...I went to Li after my FWC AGMs faded into the sunset....in the Winter on a ski trip....not much heat without electricity and in below zero...OK why did I go Li..

 

#1  They have at least 3-4X the life expectance of AGM...

#2  Putting pencil to paper and the cost of Li becomes less than AGM over the years..

#3 You can draw down, get usable Watts, out of them to zero and then recharge them without damage...50% draw       down for AGM and below that you cut into the lifetime of the AGM.

#4 You can recharge Li batteries faster than AGM...they will handle more incoming amps.

#5  Lastly for me the most important, the dependability along with longevity sealed the deal...as they say, the BB         will probably outlast me..

 

I went the full Monty: 160 & 170w Zamp panels, Victron MPPT 100/30, Victron IP67 25 amp 100v charger, Victron BMV-712 w/battery temp sensor, Victron Orion DC/DC 30 amp charger [4 awg] and a 100ah, heated, Battle Born.

 

No more worries about running out of juice on the White Rim or anywhere in BFE; just the way I went and of course I could be wrong!      

 

Honestly, transitioning from carrying my gear on my back or in my sea kayak to the Hawk....well, do you really need electricity? Yes, but only to start the Tundra...

 

 

Good luck,

Phil

Thanks Phil (and everyone else),

 

Reviewing my setup and comparing to the Li setups above, it seems that the only piece I'm universally missing for the Li setup is the DC-DC charger.  I really have no technical understanding of what this does, something about the truck battery/alternator/FWC batteries.  I have a brand new truck (2021 Tundra), so would hate to break something important (alternator/battery).  Can someone give me the dummy version for why this is in the Li setups?

 

May not be a perfect solution to start with Li, but the IOTA battery charger can add the LiFEPO charge controller for $18, my Zamp solar controller (while not MPPT) does say it works with LIFEPO.  So the missing piece is DC/DC and I have no idea where this would even be installed let alone what it does.   Am I thinking about this correctly?  Add the DC/DC and the IOTA LIFEPO controller, slam in a new 100ah LI battery and all is well?  Or will I burn down my rig or truck?