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Smart Alternator vs Battery Tender vs Orion DC/DC Charger


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#1 Wallowa

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 02:54 AM

I keep a Battery Tender Plus on the AGM battery in my Tundra...of late I have found the Orion DC/DC indicating a "float"/"Full Charge" with a solid Green LED even though my Tundra motor was off and did shut down the Orion when I turned motor off.  Orion is on "Charge" setting and not "Power" setting.

 

So is it possible that the Battery Tender is triggering the Orion on and not allowing the Orion detection shutdown to turn off the float mode?

 

Larger questions is if my 2005 Tundra SR5 AC's 130amp OEM alternator is a "Smart [variable voltage] Alternator" since the Orion default settings are set for a Smart Alternator.  I can't find information to verify that my Tundra has a smart alternator or has [then would need to change default settings] a regular/non-smart alternator.

 

Thanks....in mean time I am opening breaker while Tundra is on Battery Tender.

 

 

PDF for Battery Tender showing voltage profile...note absorption voltage @ 14.4V and Float @ 13.2V

 

Orion 'Start Voltage' is @ 14V and motor shutdown detection @ 13.1V

 

https://www.batterym...tender_plus.pdf


Edited by Wallowa, 16 October 2021 - 02:59 AM.

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#2 ntsqd

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 11:59 PM

Sounds to me like that is exactly what is happening. Unless the Orion has an ignition connection the only way that it knows that the engine is running is the change in system voltage caused by the alternator. The tender's voltage is high enough that the Orion sees that as engine-on, alternator charging, and does what its programmed to do.

 

Unless the truck's battery is suffering and not staying charged I'm not sure that this is a problem. It *might* be working the tender harder than normal thus potentially shortening its life-span, and it might not be.


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Thom

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#3 Wallowa

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 12:36 AM

Thanks for that ntsqd...I am not worried about the Tender or the AGM in the  2005 Tundra...I prefer not to keep my BB at or very near 100% SOC when stored in shop...easy fix is to open the  breaker for the Orion which is located on the firewall when stored.

 

Following up:  Is my alternator a smart, variable voltage, alternator?   ...130amp HD, winter option and OEM...but can't get a definitive answer on this from the Web.  Differences in the default Orion charge/shutdown settings....currently using "Smart" settings listed above.

 

Phil


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#4 Jon R

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:28 AM

Phil,

Apparently right around 2005 is when Toyota started installing smart alternators but I couldn’t find anything definite either for a 2005 Tundra. However, you should be able to do voltage measurements to find out as described in internet articles.

You could also call a dealer with your VIN and ask.

Edited by Jon R, 17 October 2021 - 01:30 AM.

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#5 Wallowa

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:41 AM

Jon....will do the voltage test suggested....guess under 14V is a smart and over is standard...

 

Thanks, I spaced on that...will report back.

 

Found it:

 

1. Locate your main vehicle battery
2. Start the engine, ensuring any fans, radio, lights etc. are turned off.
3. Take a voltage reading across the main vehicle battery
4. Leave running for around 5/10 minutes, then repeat step 3

If your readings are around 14.4V DC then then you most likely have the traditional, non-smart alternator.
If your reading is closer to 12.5-13.5V then it’s likely that you have a smart alternator. 


Edited by Wallowa, 17 October 2021 - 01:45 AM.

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#6 ntsqd

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 03:26 PM

I'm assuming that "BB" is a Li/Fe/something chemistry battery and that storing those at/near 100% SOC is not a good plan. In that case popping the breaker or if wired as such, turning off the camper with FWC's switch sounds like the best option.


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Thom

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#7 Wallowa

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 03:57 PM

Yup....Battleborn heated 100ah Li/Fe/Po...trying to keep it within 80%-20% SOC....still juggling settings...of course determination of 100% SOC is always a sketchy proposition...712 is fine but only sees what it adjudges as SOC from the settings, voltage reached / tail current and amps in and out across shunt...

 

Love the quick 30amps and convenience of the Orion, but also have 330 w of solar and 110 where available...hell, when skiing also tote along a Honda generator. 

 

No bigee, the battery will probably outlive me...   B)


Edited by Wallowa, 17 October 2021 - 03:58 PM.

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#8 ntsqd

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 09:00 PM

I wonder if a Low Voltage Disconnect could be tweaked to automagically perform this function?

https://www.bluesea....tage_Disconnect

 

Could just use a remote battery switch, but that relies on everyone remembering to turn it off.

https://www.bepmarin...ery-Switch-275A

 


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Thom

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#9 Wallowa

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 09:25 PM

Thanks for your recommendations...however KISS is my mantra [most of the time.. :D ]...so when Tundra is on the Tender and the hood is up, the breaker is right there on the firewall....simple...easy to remember....plug in Tender, open breaker...done.

 

Juggling too many gadgets already!

 

Odd, nobody has mentioned this passive charging through the Orion into a FWC when the vehicle is on a charger.


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#10 ntsqd

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 10:14 PM

You know the Engineering philosophy, right? If it works, it doesn't have enough features.

I regretfully work with a couple Engineers who embrace that. Fortunately I also work with a few who denounce it and can make it stick.

 

While I embrace KISS myself I also acknowledge that I'm frequently a space-case and will forget to do something likely important. So I automate those functions when possible.

 

Perhaps others either haven't noticed it or hadn't realized it to be a problem?


Edited by ntsqd, 17 October 2021 - 10:16 PM.

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Thom

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