15 replies to this topic

[HappyCampers]

After reviewing dozens of relevant threads and troubleshooting, I realize our apparent problem is common among 4WC owners. But, our electrical needs are so minimal that the logical solution is less clear.

Here's the situation. Our 2011 Eagle camper sits on a 2006 Tacoma. We have owned it for 3ish years. The original AGM battery died over the past winter (yes, it lasted 10 years!). I immediately started researching battery replacement options, solar, electrical budgeting, etc... While I wavered back and forth on a LiFePO system, I concluded - perhaps incorrectly - that our current camper use/electrical use doesn't justify the expense this upgrade. For a variety of reasons, we have opted to limit electric use to lights and the water pump. That's right, just an ice box, no ceiling fans, etc...

So, I went with the in-kind AGM replacement from Costco and installed a Victron Smart Shunt as some WTM members recommend to monitor our battery. This thing is great! I can now observe the Iota system charge and tend the battery when connected to shore power. However, after drawing down the battery, my test of the truck/alternator charging illuminated a problem. The battery separator clicked open and closed a few times, allowing intermittent current flow, but then ceased to work. Revving the engine and tapping the unit with a screw driver handle (logical things, right?), had no effect.

Further drawing down the battery this weekend had still not encouraged the recharge system to kick in even briefly with the enine running. So, once we got home, I checked all wire connections with a tester to chase down the problem. Suspecting it might be the original Atwood 3 pin connection, I cleaned up the very oxidized exposed pins. Surprisingly, this fixed the issue (or so I thought) and 3-5 amps were consistently being delivered to the battery with engine running without clicking on and off. However, after turning the truck on and off a few times, the magic was gone and the battery separator was again aparently stuck in the open? position with no current flow to the camper battery.

My conclusion is that the wiring is sufficient enough to provide a recharge to the house battery given our minimal use (e.g. 1-2 days). But, the separator (Sure Power model 1314) can't be depended upon apparently. However, I'm also not certain if what I'm seeing has anything to do with the Tacoma possibly having a 'smart' alternator and I couldn't verify this from anywhere on the Web.

Considering our current and future electrical use, available space, and budget I'm stuck however. I understand that running larger gauge wiring, installing a better truck-camper connection point, and/or a DC-DC charger would accelerate the charging capacity and be 'future wise' if we upgrade to LiFePo in the future. The wire upgrade is not cheap, but easily doable and I'm convinced that replacing the existing connection with Anderson Powerpoles will be an improvement. However, I'm having a hard time justifying the additional expense of a DC-DC charger and I'm not seeing any great mounting options in the confined space of the Eagle given it gets hot.

I guess where I'm at with this is to ask for advice on whether I'm correctly understanding the issue and cogitating on the appropriate solutions. Secondly, I would appreciate input on whether it is wise/unwise to buy used components and a good source for wire, if that's even necessary.

Sorry for being long winded, but hopefully I've provided enough background.

Hope to hear from knowledgeable folks who have been down this road.

Thanks,

Chris

[Vic Harder]

Chris, thanks for the informative post.  I'd suggest the DCDC charger first.  Yes, I know it is a bit pricey.  

[Stan@FourWheel]

Not a factory reply,  but just a personal thought on what might (might?) be an easy solution.

 

Those battery separators will never make a connection, or at least not for long, once the camper battery is drained down.

 

Until the camper battery is sufficiently charged back up, the separator will just click open and closed for what seems forever, never really charging the camper battery.

 

I have never needed to, but have always wanted to try adding a thick jumper wire from one terminal on the separator, to the other terminal, with an on/off switch in the middle of the jumper wire.

 

Turn the switch on when you are driving to force a connection (out smart the battery separator), and allow your truck alternator to charge the camper battery when driving.

 

But just remember to turn the switch off when parked so you don't accidentally drain your truck battery.

 

Might be worth a $20 experiment ?

 

https://www.amazon.c...623&sr=8-6&th=1

 

Or if you don't mind spending a few minutes each time, you can probably do it manually without a switch, by using a small wrench and bypassing the separator from time to time. Just unhook a wire on one of the battery separator wire posts, and move it over to the other post (connecting the wires together and tightening the small nut). That way both wires are connected together, and the separator is disabled. The current should (should?) flow to the camper battery when you are driving. Could be a good test if you are stuck and really need to get the camper battery zapped back up a little on the road.

Edited by Stan@FourWheel, 26 April 2022 - 05:33 PM.

[ckent323]

stan,

 

Isn't that feature pretty much what the BlueSea ML-ACR model 7622 has?  Although what you promulgated would be cheaper.


https://www.bluesea....l_-_12V_DC_500A

Edited by ckent323, 26 April 2022 - 07:51 PM.

[ntsqd]

Not long ago there was a post here that illuminated when Toyota went to the so-called 'Smart Alternator'. If that is what you have then the simple though costly solution is what Vic suggested.

 

Downside to the DC-DC's that I've read up on is that they are one direction only. I should hope that there are now dual direction units out there, but I've had no cause to go looking for them. It is a downside because if you do add solar and you want the solar to top off the truck's battery after topping off the camper's battery a single direction DC-DC unit can't do it.

 

Other option would be to go solar. Here on the lower left coast a 100 watt panel mounted flat on the roof did an amazing job of keeping ahead of a compressor fridge and our lighting needs. Up there PNW I'd suggest going with a higher wattage panel to offset your lower sun exposure.

[ckent323]

Is 2006 prior to the use of "smart" alternators in Toyota Tundra's (frankly I don't know - I did a quick search and did not find a satisfactory answer - but 2006 seems a little early)

Vic/ntsqd,

 

If HappyCampers truck is pre "smart" alternator I'm not so sure a DC-DC charger is the way to go.

I think I am reading  that both the truck (not explicitly stated) and the camper have lead acid AGM batteries so it seems to me replacing the Sure Power 1314 with a BlueSea 7622 mounted near the truck battery and fused at both ends (80 A minimum) with minimum of 6 ga wire or bigger (.i.e. 4 ga or 2 ga) via Powerpole connectors may be the best solution (short of installing a robust Solar charging system).

I hope I am not complicating or confusing things for HappyCampers.

 

 

Craig

Edited by ckent323, 27 April 2022 - 01:58 AM.

[HappyCampers]

Thank you kindly Vic, Stan, and ckent (I wanna say Craig?) for taking the time to share your wisdom! All are under serious consideration and hoping for more opinions/advice. Please!

Should clarify that battery was still at 75% and then 95% state of charge when battery separator appeared to be working intermittently.

Anyway, following Vic's recommendation seriously, I made a cardboard model of a Victron DC-DC charger to see if there's a workable location in my cramped Eagle that meets installation spacing recommendations, since it gets hot. With the water system up front and driver's side, the only spot appears to be in the forward foot bay of the side dinette. Concerns I have with this are it will be exposed to feet/bare legs, possibly absentmindedly buried when packing, and requires bring wires out from and back into the battery cabinet.

So, pivoting to Stan's input (which I will follow for testing or if ever in a pinch) and ckent's comment. I am leaning towards a Blue Sea ACR could address my needs? I believe it could fit in the battery box area and have the sense that heat generation is not an issue. While this may be obsolete if/when we go to a LiFePo system, I wouldn't be installing a more expensive unit that will be subjected to getting knocked around and require weird wiring runs and cabinet drilling.

Thanks again for the help and sorry if I'm being an indecisive diva about this. Just want to make a well informed decision and be able to resolve this in the next few days.

[HappyCampers]

Whoops, a couple of additional posts since I was writing a reply.

My search of the forums here and elsewhere regarding when smart alternators came online in Tacomas was inconclusive and I'm just not currently interested in solar for a variety of reasons.

Appreciate the suggestions and hope they keep flowing!

[ntsqd]

CKent, I agree that if no Smart Alt then the Blue Sea Systems ACR is a good choice. So is the BEP Marine VSR. There is one of each in the fleet of vehicles around here.

While recognizing that they easily solve an otherwise difficult problem I'm not a fan of DC-DC converters used this way. Mostly because I do want the solar to top off and maintain the truck's starting batteries.

 

I prefer to put the Separator in the camper near the battery. Still with appropriate protection at both ends (I use 285 Series Breakers, but to each their own).

My logic is that then it moves with the camper and it gives you high current battery power on the truck to tap into for whatever other needs you might have without being part of the camper charging circuit. On our CTD the OBA compressor is supposedly a 3/4HP electric compressor (no clamp-on current probe, so no idea what it actually pulls), but it is tied into the same wiring as the camper charge circuit. If/When we start to pull a trailer with the truck I'll tap into that power for the trailer lights so that they're not on the truck's lighting circuits.

[PaulT]

It occurs to me that a possible solution for some may be the following Powerwerx DC DC LiFePO4 charger :

https://powerwerx.co...4-8a-adjustable

 

It is a variable current DC-DC charger that could be useful for charging your LiFePO4 camper battery.  It is switch selectable for 2, 4, or 8 amps and has PowerPole connectors on the wires. I have one I use for charging my amateur radio LiFePO4 batteries but setting it to the 8 amp setting would still be useful for charging the camper batteries from the truck if needed. I carry it as a backup for the camper batteries as I charge them normally with solar or shore power. 

 

At $70 US, it isn't too expensive as a backup unit.

 

Paul