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Wilderness Areas Rules


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#21 AWG_Pics

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Posted 29 June 2022 - 03:45 PM

What an interesting turn this conversation has taken. Lots of controversial topics raised. Let's see: Federal Government as dedicated lands protector, often guilty of serious overreach and frequent mismanagement of lands. Use of technology in Wilderness Areas. Carrying weapons of any sort in wilderness areas. Grandfathered grazing permits for sheep and cattle on public lands. Violent resolutions to conflicts over backcountry behavior.

 

Winston Churchill once said that: “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” I  agree with Winston's somewhat cynical comment.

 

Earlier I said "The executive branch proposes, the legislative branch disposes." How this actually works is at the root of many of our problems. For nearly 15 years I had to travel about once a year from my comfort zone in the Pacific Northwest to Washington DC to meet with the NW Congressional delegation folks or their staffs. Our very small  group of two or three would make the rounds to each office of the various Senators or Representatives and talk about NW issues related to fish, wildlife, habitats and power generation and distribution. Because we never came with an 'ask', which nearly everyone else does, we most often were greeted by friendly, chatty staff folks. When these folks came to the Pacific NW to gather information, we very often met and helped them out the best we could with introductions, field tours, issue summaries, etc. It was rare that any of the electeds or their staff members were anything other than sincere and usually very sharp and quick to pick up on what was being shown or said to them.

 

The point to all this is, to quote Smoke: "...it is amazing that there are any protected areas at all out on our public lands." The pull and tug on our elected representatives and the staff is unbelievably intense and confusing. How anything gets done is a wonder, that so many good things have got done is a miracle. That grave errors and injustices have occurred and continue to occur is, sadly, unsurprising and not unexpected. (I have a very long list of government successes and failures.)

 

Once the federal, state, county or tribal governments have decided on a course of action or a policy, the responsibility largely reverts to us citizens. There are not enough cops, agents, government technicians or scientists and volunteers to do more than try to keep things from going completely off the rails. It is everyday folks that really determine how things play out on the ground.

 

To quote DavidGraves, above: "I find lots of the toys that people use in the outdoors offensive. 

I am glad if you try to use yours in as un-offensive manner as you can."

 

 

 


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#22 fuzzymarindave

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Posted 29 June 2022 - 05:13 PM

I like driving my truck/camper on dirt roads and I like mountain biking on remote trails but I absolutely cherish the wilderness areas for being able to escape the mechanized world which almost completely engulfs our daily lives.  I've been looking at going to a couple of new to me wilderness areas this fall and I have noticed there are individual carve-outs within the boundaries where folks can drive jeeps/side-by-sides so I am trying to plan to stay away from that area.   


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#23 Smokecreek1

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Posted 29 June 2022 - 08:27 PM

The whole land management process is slow but if we the users of it , don't take part in it, our power to use it will be taken from us  by those who will end our use of it-if they are given a chance.  Public Land is just that-it belongs to we-the Public!  I don't know how many times, we set up public meetings and or asked for comments on some proposed management action and no one showed up or responded with comments except the same old users with the same old comments.     For example new fights between population centers and big  ag.  and the other users of public lands over water rights and who gets what or not, are in court now. Anyway,  lots of problems out there, we can no longer stick our heads in the ground or head deeper in the back country and hope they will go away,  time to make those comments or volunteer, give money your time or what ever while we still can !This site is a good place to keep up on what is happening out there!

 

Smoke


Edited by Smokecreek1, 29 June 2022 - 08:27 PM.

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#24 buckland

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Posted 29 June 2022 - 08:40 PM

Agree Smoke. It ain't "free" open land. It is all of ours and like stated above Democracy is messy and nobody can have it their way entirely or even half... but we are a community we are a "we" ...not just a "ME" . A whole bunch of "ME's" is not what will work. 

It is a, like with everything human, a lot of work and compromise. Painful but what is the alternative?


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#25 Casa Escarlata Robles Too

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Posted 29 June 2022 - 11:04 PM

Smoke,Buckland thanks for the comments and for staying on topic.

 

This site is a good place to express views and gather info.

Frank


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#26 teledork

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Posted 31 August 2022 - 03:56 PM

Violent resolutions to conflicts over backcountry behavior.

 

I was followed by a drone while trying to find a place to pull down my pants and pee. 

 

And I am not of the mind that shooting down a drone which is being used in a indecent manner is "violent".  


Edited by teledork, 31 August 2022 - 04:00 PM.

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#27 AWG_Pics

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Posted 31 August 2022 - 04:30 PM

I was followed by a drone while trying to find a place to pull down my pants and pee. 

 

And I am not of the mind that shooting down a drone which is being used in a indecent manner is "violent".  

 

Stupid, immature, ignorant drone owners are going to create a pushback on their peeping tom toys. I am inclined to agree with you. After the first time this happens to us, I guess I will then need to begin carrying a shotgun during nature's necessities. I will look forward to the conversation with the drone owner afterwards -- unless they run away with their tail between their legs. I hope that never becomes necessary.


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#28 Casa Escarlata Robles Too

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Posted 31 August 2022 - 06:00 PM

I was followed by a drone while trying to find a place to pull down my pants and pee. 

 

And I am not of the mind that shooting down a drone which is being used in a indecent manner is "violent".  

There is just something very wrong with this whole drone usage IMO.

Frank


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#29 Old Crow

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Posted 02 September 2022 - 03:07 PM

Food for thought...

 

The following article points out some of the legal issues around taking down a drone.

 

How to Legally Take Down a Drone

 

Readers may want to do other web searches for info on the topic. (And if you find a better-written or better-sourced article than that one, please let me know!)

 

I hesitated to post this as I know drones are a contentious issue. But it's also important to know that you can't legally take down a drone except under exceptional (and defendable) circumstances.

 

Also-  I'm an occasional operator of a recreational drone. Before even assembling my drone, I check whether it's legal to fly at this specific location.  I use the B4UFLY app to do that.  There's nothing that says you have to be a drone owner to run B4UFLY.  If you suspect that a drone is being flown in an area where drones are not permitted, you could use B4UFLY to confirm that before reporting the illegal activity.

 

Also- You may be interested to know that many drones will soon fall under "Remote-ID" rules.  By September 2023 they will be required to broadcast a signal identifying them.  This may put a damper on some of the illegal activity. 


Edited by Old Crow, 02 September 2022 - 03:18 PM.

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