28 replies to this topic

[Foy]

That is, of course, very true.  And while I have little in common with the views of most of the "Sagebrush Rebellion" folks from the 1980s, and essentially nothing in common with most of today's virulent anti-government activists, I am able to envision how some of the core beliefs are formed and nurtured.  If the Feds can't figure out what to do with the Wilderness Act and the WSA additions after 58 and 45 years, respectively, why believe they're serious about it to begin with?  Why continue to allow other wide swaths of recreational and commercial activity to come further under their purview?  

There's an old saying which I believe originated in the Southern Appalachians in the 1930s:  The most fearful words a farmer can hear are "I'm from the Federal Government and I'm here to help you".  There are many tens of thousands of Depression era families and their descendants which were "helped" by having their lands taken for TVA projects and for National Parks (Shenandoah and Great Smoky Mountains NPs), and for the 470 mile long road corridor connecting them. While rural electrification drove enormous improvements in many more lives than those disrupted, feelings still run strong against the Gummint in lots of the rural South.  I say that without agreement with or prejudice against it--it's just the way it is.

 

Foy

[PaulT]

As someone who grew up in the 50's in the afflicted area, I understand the emotions related to TVA projects. I recall my parents complaining about the need for lawsuits to get some of the promised power for residences when most of it was being taken to produce aluminum. 

 

The use of eminent domain to force sale of private property for "the public good" but handing the benefits off to corporate aluminum interests was an example of political corruption/crony capitalism at its worst. 

 

We have similar issues here in the PNW with low cost Columbia River hydropower being sold by the aluminum industry to benefit large  computer server farms rather than the public at large. When the aluminum industry stopped producing aluminum, those cheap power contracts should have been terminated.  Consider using eminent domain to yank the benefits back for the public.

 

Paul

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Very nicely said Foy.

Frank

[Taku]

2019 is the last year listed which added just over 1.3 million acres to wilderness areas.  The list shows acreages added and lost. Might be a slow process but due to the diligence and effort of many tireless groups, the list grows bit by bit.

 

https://wilderness.n...ted-by-year.php

 

[teledork]

In my opinion there are way too many wilderness users who don't understand the intent of the Wilderness or just don't care. I mean - the toilet paper, the garbage left in fire rings, packing in generators and stereo systems  (Dingleberry Lake, John Muir Wilderness) chainsaws (Blackcap Basin, John Muir Wilderness) and now people are happily sharing illegal wilderness drone video - I've seen some here on this site (Burt Canyon/Anna Lake, Hoover Wilderness) 

 

And the sheep. Anyone who believes that 800 head of sheep do not leave lasting scars in the wilderness have not experienced it and/or work for the Forest Service. ( I apologize if I offend anyone who was or is a FS employee. I was.) 

 

I know some places. I just spent five days in one. As for the drones - I am learning how to use a slingshot. Sorry - not sorry. 

[buckland]

Right there with you on your sentiment. I threw a spanner wrench at a drone. Landed at the foot of the operator…. A spirited conversation ensued. Education is the only answer…. A LOT of education. IMHO folks should be required to take a 30 minute video as part of the pass system to a park. Once taken they are done. It can be streamed to their iPhone once seen they have no excuse for bad behavior. Then if caught doing stupid stuff they should be fined up the wahzoo (if that is a word). Like merit badges only high tech.

[ski3pin]

I walked over to a man getting ready to launch his drone in a crowded campground and fly over the campsites.

I said, "Son, you know what me and my neighbors call that thing?"

"No, I don't," came the surly reply.

"We call it a target. It might be more fun for you if you say, 'Pull' when you launch it."

He put his toy away. I got several offers of beer. I said, "Thanks, but I don't drink."

[teledork]

 Education is the only answer…. A LOT of education. IMHO folks should be required to take a 30 minute video as part of the pass system to a park. Once taken they are done. It can be streamed to their iPhone once seen they have no excuse for bad behavior. Then if caught doing stupid stuff they should be fined up the wahzoo (if that is a word). Like merit badges only high tech.

Education is necessary. At times I think there should be some kind of licensing. And then I think about the way some people drive and I realize that enforcement is the key*. And then I remember that I rarely meet a ranger out there but maybe it is the places I go. I was backpacking for five days this past week. I did not see a single human. Carson-Iceberg wilderness is not currency on social media.

 

  * nah - thinking about other people, empathy, walking a mile in another's shoes is the key - enforcement is necessary because empathy is misused and abused. 

[teledork]

I walked over to a man getting ready to launch his drone in a crowded campground and fly over the campsites.

I said, "Son, you know what me and my neighbors call that thing?"

"No, I don't," came the surly reply.

"We call it a target. It might be more fun for you if you say, 'Pull' when you launch it."

He put his toy away. I got several offers of beer. I said, "Thanks, but I don't drink."

Oh good lord! I would seriously do that (except turn down a beer - unless it was light)  

Edited by teledork, 11 June 2022 - 11:44 PM.

[Beate]

"""I threw a spanner wrench at a drone. Landed at the foot of the operator"""

What a good idea!! I would like to do the same.