24 replies to this topic

[John D]

The Buddy Heater, Olympian Wave, and other heaters are being brought up in the forum regularly. Apparently, they are nice devices which provide heat efficiently and relatively inexpensively. To the best of my knowledge, these are unvented heaters. Though combustion is very efficient, do they have unhealthy combustion byproducts nevertheless? I would like to read a discussion of the subject.

I am old enough to remember gas space heaters at my grandmother's house out in the country. Maybe modern gas heaters don't have bad combustion byproducts, but I suspect they do. My grandmother said it was not a good idea to leave them on all the time. She used unvented gas heaters in a limited way, to heat a bedroom or a bathroom on a cold morning, for changing cloths or bathing. But the heater was cut off when people were sleeping, hence the stacks of quilts on the beds.

At times, the gas space heaters were used in a day room for long hours. Whenever one entered a room where one of these heaters had been on for several hours, it was obvious that the air did not smell good, there was moisture on the windows, and it seemed unhealthy.

Therefore, I am for unvented gas heaters in limited use but I am against them for long periods and definately I would not sleep in a camper with an unvented gas space heater running. Does anyone disagree? I am open to changing my mind if I am wrong. _John D

[Stan@FourWheel]

I think if used properly, they might be OK for short periods of time.

Most customers I have talked to over the years that do use them, usually only have it on at night and turn if off before going to bed. And then turn it on again when they wake up to take the chill off. They also make sure they have a couple of vents open to allow fresh air flow.

But I worry that there are people that won't use them properly.

There are many sharp people out there, and they they are a few people that won't have the street smarts on when, or when not to use this type of heater.

I talked to one guy a few years back that was running one (something like a black cat catalytic with the screw on green propane bottle). He woke up in the middle of the night really cold. The heater had gone out sometime in the middle of the night. His first though ... "it must be out of propane?". He unscrewed the bottle and attached a new, full propane bottle. He proceeded to get his lighter out to re-light the small propane heater. Strange he thought ... "why won't my lighter "light" ?. He got another lighter out and tried that one too. It didn't work either ??

OH !!! No oxygen.

The little heater had burned all of the oxygen inside.

He opened the doors and windows for a bit.

He was very lucky that he did wake up.

It was probably safe to say he never left the little heater running all night again.


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[craig333]

I'm with Stan on this. If you want/need heat while you're sleeping, get a vented heater. I know theres some who say its fine, but do you really want to risk your life? I carry a little buddy, but use it inside? no way.

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Little Buddy heaters (unlike Coleman Cats) have an automatic shut-off when the O2 level gets low; they shut down before the oxygen levels become fatal for humans. And if the O2 remains low, they will not relight.

That said, I've been using a Little Buddy for years but never sleep with it on! I have a warm sleeping bag for that.

[John D]

Stan,

My space heater for camping is a friendly woman. I was telling my heater your story about they guy who used up all the oxygen in his camper with an unvented space heater. She liked the story and it made me start thinking, maybe my heater is dangerous too. Running out of oxygen could be welcome relief compared to what she could do to me if I fail to use her properly. Actually, that is another subject.

More on point here, there is another discussion going on right now about buddy heaters and trouble with them at altitude. The Hydro Flame furnace, a vented RV furnace, was apparently used on a Mt. Everest expedition. Does anyone know details on that story? Do you suppose a reason for using a vented heater on Everest was to avoid reducing oxygen even further in the rarefied high altitude of the mountain?

_John D

[chnlisle]

John,
Did your heater remain congenial during the recent truck troubles?

My guess on the Everest thing is since even the humans need to artificially supplement they're oxygen there might not be enough O2 to run a heater but hey most of my life was spent at sea level so its just a WAG.

[John D]

As we pulled in the driveway, she said, "After 40 days in a broken down old truck and a little popup camper, we are still speaking. Good trip."

[home skillet]

OK, I have to throw my 2 cents in here. First off, John D. Can you get one of the those heater partners at the local Bi-Mart? (wouldn't that be nice). Anyhoo, I have been using a wave 3 catalytic in my camper for 3 years. I do have an electric heater too, but it requires 110 hookup (don't say it, I know). So the sole source of heat is the wave. I do make a habit of turning it off before I doz, but the key to any catalytic heater is a fresh air vent. This means cracking a window. The makers recommend a 1" X 8" crack for every 5000 BTU. If this is done......the heater is safe. If this is not done........peaceful passing ensues.

Now, I am building a new camper right now and am going to stick with the catalytic heater system. However, I am upgrading to the Olympian because it does come with a well tested and proven O2 shut off sensor. I for one have a great amount of trust in these and I think if used properly and with a fresh air vent of some kind, then pretty hard to get into trouble.

On the "death by deoxygination" cases. I will bet that we could look up a dozen ways people have died in campers from other systems simply because they were dumb. Can you say "Darwin" or "thinning of the herd"?

[DirtyDog]

OK, I have to throw my 2 cents in here. First off, John D. Can you get one of the those heater partners at the local Bi-Mart? (wouldn't that be nice). Anyhoo, I have been using a wave 3 catalytic in my camper for 3 years. I do have an electric heater too, but it requires 110 hookup (don't say it, I know). So the sole source of heat is the wave. I do make a habit of turning it off before I doz, but the key to any catalytic heater is a fresh air vent. This means cracking a window. The makers recommend a 1" X 8" crack for every 5000 BTU. If this is done......the heater is safe. If this is not done........peaceful passing ensues.

Now, I am building a new camper right now and am going to stick with the catalytic heater system. However, I am upgrading to the Olympian because it does come with a well tested and proven O2 shut off sensor. I for one have a great amount of trust in these and I think if used properly and with a fresh air vent of some kind, then pretty hard to get into trouble.

On the "death by deoxygination" cases. I will bet that we could look up a dozen ways people have died in campers from other systems simply because they were dumb. Can you say "Darwin" or "thinning of the herd"?

I don't think your wife is as stoked about your unvented gas as you are

[John D]

Skillet, I clicked over to the FWC web site to check out their forced air automatic furnace, $495. If I were ordering a new camper, I can't see how I could go wrong with that option. It makes no sense to mess around with unvented heaters when a real forced air furnace is not expensive (compared to the assumed risk of using an unvented heater).

No question about it, that friendly woman is by far the best heater. She has a great sleeping system comprised by a light weight sleeping bag and a heavy sleeping bag that are zipped together. When we are making up the bed, my heater asks how cold it is forecast for the night and she puts the appropriate weight bag on top. If it is really cold, we have a nice thick comforter to go on top of that. Because I am bald, my heater provides three different sleeping hats to choose from. We open windows appropriately for the camp and weather. That system is one of the best parts of camping. I can't think of many things more pleasant than sleeping with that setup in 50 degrees with the windows open. If you don't have this type of heater, I strongly recommend you get one because it makes all the other details of which type of RV, etc, entirely insignificant. (And by the way, my heater has a nickle plated S&W model 10 right next to her side of the bunk. This is her heater.)

Electric quartz heaters: not quite on subject, but we carry a Pelonis Basic at all times. I think they are pretty safe. The only concern is placing it too close to something flamable. If we are leaving it on all night, we might put it on top of the stove, for safety, and where my heater can reach the switch on it.

Cook stove (unvented): If you light the cook stove, this will heat up the inside of the camper very quickly. I like to bath every day. Especially in cool weather, warm water makes the bath very pleasant. I boil a pot of water on the stove while I am getting undressed. I pour this in a quarter bucket of water, which makes warm bath water to use with soap and a wash cloth. Shut the stove off and dry with a towel. Having bathed like this for 65 years while camping, I see no need for a shower in my camper and I would not have one. When on a camping trip, there are other bath options to take advantage of, depending on the situation, all very much part of the pleasure of camping. (If I could not live without a stand up shower, I would probably stay home.) Back to the subject.

In conclusion, please consider not using unvented gas heaters, especially inside tiny campers. _John D