Jump to content


Photo

Less War. More Parks.


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#21 Cort

Cort

    Captain Moderation

  • Members
  • 422 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata, CA/Northern CA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:12 AM

Removed post to keep the focus of this thread on our National Park System

Cort
  • 0

#22 clikrf8

clikrf8

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 494 posts
  • LocationBellingham, WA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:37 AM

Margaret Mead: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

I just want to chime in to support our national parks, national monuments, state parks, any open space. Our national parks are loved to death, not only by Americans but increasingly by Europeans and Asians. When hubby and I were at Bryce last October, we were sometimes the only ones speaking English. We headed for Grand Staircase and San Rafale Swell to escape the crowds.

We have the senior pass, just got it last year, but have bought passes in the past. It is well worth it. We welcome paying for other state parks knowing that our fees help with maintenance. Some of the most beautiful parks are state parks such as Nevada's Valley Of Fire and Utahs's Goblin Valley, Snow Canyon and Kodachrome.

Open spaces, special places are necessary. A photo I took near Factory Butte (Hwy 24 near Hanksville, Utah) is hanging on our wall. It is there to remind me of the serenity and peace I felt looking at the stark landscape just as the almost rising sun lit up the storm clouds. It was so still. No wind, no traffic, no aircraft, almost otherworldly.

I am heartened by what you all had to say, that you value areas set aside for the future, to be preserved for the public. That is why you love to get outta town, to explore and just revel in what a beautiful planet we live on. Thanks for believing in our national heritage.
  • 0
2008 Ford F250 diesel 4x4 off road pkg 2013 Hallmark Ute http://www.clikrf8images.com/ http://clikrf8.wordp...com/2010/09/01/

#23 DirtyDog

DirtyDog

    Captain Leisure

  • Site Team
  • 3,157 posts
  • LocationEugene, Oregon

Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:47 AM

you know politics is never a good thing on this site and it has gotten out of control in the last week or so.

Being in civil service has nothing to do with how hard someone works...there are lazy people who take advantage and there are others who work there ##ss off; whether you are in civil service or the private industry has nothing to do with it. Just look how government contractors (private industry) have completely taken advantage of our system.

I happen to work in the private sector but I know lots of people who work civil service jobs and they are hard working and get very little compensation for the type of work they do.

I think you need to be careful making such blanket statements.

I have been very disappointed in the amount of politics I have heard on this site in the last week. I am not saying that I agree or disagree with what I have read but this is not a political site....its a camping site made up of all kinds of people with all kinds of view points...the one thing we all have in common is we love the outdoors, dirt roads, and camping.......Can't we just stick to that?

Cort


I feel that an appropriate role of this website is in advocacy. I had planned that years ago but tip toed around the subject so as not to offend anyone. However, it seems there is an appropriate time for everything and I feel that now is the time step up and do our parts. If anyone doesn't like it, they are free to ignore the contents of this advocacy forum completely.

I don't really see it as politics anyway. See the original post. It's some basic math. No reason for anyone to get upset.
  • 0

#24 Cort

Cort

    Captain Moderation

  • Members
  • 422 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata, CA/Northern CA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 02:35 AM

I feel that an appropriate role of this website is in advocacy. I had planned that years ago but tip toed around the subject so as not to offend anyone. However, it seems there is an appropriate time for everything and I feel that now is the time step up and do our parts. If anyone doesn't like it, they are free to ignore the contents of this advocacy forum completely.

I don't really see it as politics anyway. See the original post. It's some basic math. No reason for anyone to get upset.


I have no problem with that. I am a huge proponent of advocacy (we have talked enough Aaron for you to know that). People from different backgrounds (even political backgrounds) and different beliefs often end up advocating for the same causes..such as cleaning up campgrounds, educating folks on backcountry etiquette, keeping public lands open to everyone...etc. Espousing political beliefs and direct judgments of groups of people will not get us anywhere. Directly blaming others for our problems does not get us any closer to a solutions. What is the point of that....how does that help us in promoting the activities that we (all of us here at this site) love? How does it help us pass it on to others?

Cort

Edited Post
  • 0

#25 DirtyDog

DirtyDog

    Captain Leisure

  • Site Team
  • 3,157 posts
  • LocationEugene, Oregon

Posted 10 April 2011 - 02:56 AM

I have no problem with that. I am a huge proponent of advocacy (we have talked enough Aaron for you to know that). People from different backgrounds (even political backgrounds) and different beliefs often end up advocating for the same causes..such as cleaning up campgrounds, educating folks on backcountry etiquette, keeping public lands open to everyone...etc. Espousing political beliefs and direct judgments of groups of people (civil service workers for example) will not get us anywhere. I was not commenting on the original post....though it is a bit political but DLN's comment that civil service workers and government employees in general are lazy. What is the point of that....how does that help us in promoting the activities that we (all of us here at this site) love? How does it help us pass it on to others?

DNL....I don't mean to pick on you and I am sure that it is probable coming off that way...I guess I am just trying to make a point that when advocating for causes you need to make sure that you include everyone and don't start singling out specific groups of people and blaming them for all our problems.

Cort


I agree about the public servants. But this is an opportunity to come together on the issue and talk it out rather than get upset. Maybe thats what we need to do - politics over beers and a campfire :)
  • 0

#26 Cort

Cort

    Captain Moderation

  • Members
  • 422 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata, CA/Northern CA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 03:48 AM

I agree about the public servants. But this is an opportunity to come together on the issue and talk it out rather than get upset. Maybe thats what we need to do - politics over beers and a campfire :)


How about dropping the politics and advocating for a common cause over beers...politics will work it way in there on its own :D

Cort

oh and by the way I totally agree this is a good opportunity to come together as a whole and work on an issue.

Edited by Cort, 10 April 2011 - 04:00 AM.

  • 0

#27 Hittheroad

Hittheroad

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:10 PM

Old Ike was smart enough to see that the only way to pay for new roads (the Interstate System) was to make them a defense priority. We seem to have lost that wisdom and I am tempted to say that those who place tax cuts ahead of road maintenance are weakening the country and a lot more dangerous than those commies that used to lurk under our beds. Now how do we make parks a defense priority? I am serious - they really are. But making the case in a few words may not be easy.
(As a partially relevant aside: a couple of weeks ago I was skiing at Lake Placid when the 10th Mountain division descended on us. Many soldiers were equipped with snow boards the military application of which has yet to be demonstrated. I am sure they believe parklands are worth defending.)
  • 0

#28 DLN

DLN

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,111 posts
  • LocationGrass Valley Area, CA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 02:45 PM

Cort, you have a very valid point concerning the appropriateness of expressing my opinions on this forum, really not the place for it. So I've edited the post and we can go back to the more important issue of supporting our park system.
  • 0
DLN Ex- 2006 Eagle - 2002 Tacoma TRD - Ride Rite Air Bags Current - 2004 17' Casita SD

#29 Cort

Cort

    Captain Moderation

  • Members
  • 422 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata, CA/Northern CA

Posted 10 April 2011 - 03:14 PM

DLN I am glad to know that my comments were taken as constructive and not an attack. I certainly was trying to be constructive but you know how things can be hard to read on the internet.

Maybe we need a political expression forum that is separate from the advocacy forum?

Cort
  • 0

#30 MarkBC

MarkBC

    The Weatherman

  • Site Team
  • 6,592 posts
  • LocationBend, Oregon

Posted 10 April 2011 - 04:06 PM

Maybe we need a political expression forum that is separate from the advocacy forum?

Seems like the WTW Lounge (just shootin the shat) forum could already work for this, since it's a not-necessarily-camping-related forum.

I think it's a great idea and goal to keep the politics out of our discussion of parks/public lands advocacy...but I think it's gonna take some very careful foot-work to avoid stepping on members toes from time to time.

If "advocacy" just takes the form of "clean up after yourself, don't screw up public lands, clean up after the slobs and/or tell them to clean up after themselves" then I think we can all agree on that without any controversial politics.

But funding of public lands (especially in National Parks, since revenue-producing resource-extractive activities aren't permitted there) is all about politics. I'm no fan of politics (I even find myself turning off NPR when they interview Ds and Rs about the recent budget debate Posted Image ), but I'm pretty sure that public-funding is nothing-but politics, and most of politics is about public funding. For example, I'm sure there are Members who love our national parks but also think "national-security" can't be compromised at all, and social programs should be cut instead (not me, but still...)

All I'm saying is that I'm all for keeping "no politics" as an ideal goal for an Advocacy forum/thread...but more-realistically, if we can at least try to think twice or three times about how much of a post is necessary (and not post while hot) it may help the civility of the forum and group-acceptability of the effort.
(BTW: I have to work on this in myself big-time -- "restraint of tongue and pen". I participate in other kinds of forums (fori?), too, and I frequently find myself enraged by any posts that I deem "arrogant" or "ignorant", and I have to struggle to keep from becoming a flaming-post jerk myself...and I don't always succeed. Posted Image)
- Mark
  • 0

FWC Hawk (2005) on a Ford F250 Supercab, 6.8L V10 gas (2000)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users