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Are you aware of HR 1581?


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#21 generubin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 03:45 PM

But, I think I went off on a tangent and it is important to remember that many organizations think this bill is really about opening lands for resource extraction. Certainly, some of the areas designated in the bill in my neck of the woods - the Sacramento mountains - already allow access by motorized vehicles. However, they don't allow new roads, for say, logging (although logging is ongoing elsewhere in the Sacramentos). It's also good to remember that one of the bill's sponsors has a lot of petroleum industry contributions, and one of the bills lobbyists is the Independent Oil Producers’ Agency.

Just sayin' that it's really not about OHV access. That's pretty much a smokescreen.



Yes, this is exactly the problem. Oil, gas, and logging interests have been trying to reduce public lands protections for years. When bills like this comes up, the off-road guys foolishly think they have found a champion in DC who actually cares about giving them places to drive! It isn't the ATV crowd being catered to, it's the big money. We already gave the criminal banks all of our money, let's not give the extractive industries our last precious lands.

Don't even get me started on Disney's attempts to privatize and "develop" our public lands. They almost got away with developing Mineral King NP back in the 60's. The Forest Service Adventure Pass was pushed through by Disney in an attempt too get people used to paying money to visit our own public lands, create a database of users to market to and then take over adminstration of the Adv. Pass. REI was in on this as well, they wanted the data base of Forest Service users to send catalogs to.

ok, I am on a roll. The Postal Service. The Postal Service actually operates at a profit. 8 years ago, Congress passed and Bush signed what is now known as the "Poison Pill Legislation" that the Post Office must fund the next 75 years of health care for Postal employees and do it within 10 years at 5 billion per year. To actually pay for health care for people that are not even born yet! This was done to break the PO, to privatize it and give the PO over to cronies. There is no corporation nor government agency on earth that funds healthcare 75 years in advance. The "let's privatize everything on earth" people can not bear to see gov't programs that actually work well such as the PO (who ships everywhere on earth, even UPS and FEDEX do not deliver to all USA addresses), medicare who spends only 3% on administration, 97% on actual healthcare, nor Social Security who has never once missed a single check and is solvent until 2050 and will be solvent forever once the millionaires start to pay their share. These "let's privatize" want to whittle away at all public programs. When they take over the hwy system, which they are working on now, you'll have frickin' tool booths everywhere. If Disney could have their way, you'd have tollbooths at the head of all your favorite 4x4 trails.

Poison Pill Legislation:
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#22 craig333

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 10:58 PM

Hikers have no halo. Ever been to that lake at the top of horsetails falls in desolations wilderness? Horribly trashed. Well hopefully its been cleaned up by now. I can't hardly find a trail in any well used wilderness that hasn't been harmed by hikers cutting switchbacks.

I certainly agree we need to protect natural areas. Not sure where this idea comes from that we haven't. There are more than fifty (official) wildnernesses in California alone. More than ten million acres and thats not counting fed and state parks, conservation areas and other assorted protected areas.


And btw, I'm not too fond of atv's myself. They just seem to attract the wrong kind of people. As with everything else there are exceptions of course.
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#23 EdoHart

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:46 AM

Yes, this is exactly the problem. Oil, gas, and logging interests have been trying to reduce public lands protections for years. When bills like this comes up, the off-road guys foolishly think they have found a champion in DC who actually cares about giving them places to drive! It isn't the ATV crowd being catered to, it's the big money. We already gave the criminal banks all of our money, let's not give the extractive industries our last precious lands.

[snip]
Poison Pill Legislation: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xPuz1ScIetU

This bill doesn't open public land to Oil, Gas and logging interests, nor does it open open our public lands to the ATV crowd. What is says is that since the lands under question have not been deemed worthy of protection under the Wlidernesness Act -- and those lands have been studied since 2000 -- those lands shall administerd by the rules in effect for those various lands. That is, either USFS or BLM regulations.

Furthermore, it prevents the Secretary of Agriculture from creating rules which would contravene the rules by which those lands would otherwise be adminstered by either USFS or BLM regulations. In other words, it prevents the Secretary of Agriculture alone, from deciding what will, and what won't be designated as Wilderness. I don't want one man to be able to decide what is wilderness. That is too big of a question for one man to decide.

Read the bill here:
https://org2.democra...ages/hr1581.pdf
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