30 replies to this topic

[generubin]

Hey, I want to tell you, as nice as the ride is with the Bilstein 5100, don't buy them. I blew out a second shock on a washboard road. Only 6 months old, two bad ones. Speaking to the two tech guys at Bilstein, they both agreed their shocks can't handle washboard. When I told the techs that 30+ years of using ProComp or Rancho I never had a failure they said "Well, of course not, only mono-tube designs overheat to the point of failure". All Bilstein models are mono-tube, they told me no model Bilstein would be able to handle washboard heat build-up. They told me that maybe their 5160 might do the trick with its extra reservoir but they agreed at $200 per shock, better not to take the chance. They even read to me a paragraph from their documents that states, "for highway or light off road only". Without saying the actual words, if I didn;t want to invest heavily and experiment, they were recommending I go back to twin tubes. Incredible!

So, if you're doing the sorts of desert off-road, washboard roads, that I do, stick with Rancho or Procomp (and not the mono-tube designs). I ordered a new set of Procomp 9000. I'll put my remaining rear Bilsteins on ebay. Bilstein 5100 were like $360 a set, the Procomps on sale at $160 a set!

Gene

[ski3pin]

Hey, I want to tell you, as nice as the ride is with the Bilstein 5100, don't buy them. I blew out a second shock on a washboard road. Only 6 months old, two bad ones. Speaking to the two tech guys at Bilstein, they both agreed their shocks can't handle washboard. When I told the techs that 30+ years of using ProComp or Rancho I never had a failure they said "Well, of course not, only mono-tube designs overheat to the point of failure". All Bilstein models are mono-tube, they told me no model Bilstein would be able to handle washboard heat build-up. They told me that maybe their 5160 might do the trick with its extra reservoir but they agreed at $200 per shock, better not to take the chance. They even read to me a paragraph from their documents that states, "for highway or light off road only". Without saying the actual words, they were recommending I go back to Rancho or Procomp. Incredible!

So, if you're doing the sorts of desert off-road, washboard roads, that I do, stick with Rancho or Procomp (and not the mono-tube designs). I ordered a new set of Procomp 9000. I'll put my remaining rear Bilsteins on ebay. Bilstein 5100 were like $360 a set, the Procomps on sale at $160 a set!

Gene

Gene, incredible story. I hope these techs are able to keep their jobs. Where is there not washboard?

[SunMan]

Interesting story Gene, I always figured I would go with Bilsteins the next time around beacuase of all I have heard about them. I have always used Ranchos and never had a problem, until I blew a RS 9000 out during a two week Baja trip a couple of years ago. They were less than a year old. Fortunately I found out something I didn't know about them....they are guaranteed for life and Ruben at Ventura 4x4 replaced it for free. Maybe I'll reconsider now. Do Bilsteins not have a similar guarantee??? Sorry to hear about you misfortune.

[craig333]

Ack, now you tell me. Thats incredible. I think I'll have a week off for thanksgiving, was thinking of trying the washboard in DV/Saline. Well I still will, I"ll just be a bit more paranoid about it. Thanks

[generubin]

@ ski3pin: I was very impressed by the techs. They stand by their product, they just state that off road is not what the yellow/blue, 5100 nor 5160 are designed for. The only way to get an "off road" Bilstein is from their custom shop at hundreds per shock. At first I was furious with Bilstein but now I respect them for their honesty. It is the 4wd shops that promote these as off road shocks.

@ Sunni, Lifetime warranty on the Bilstein as well. But I'd rather not swap out the shocks after every trip down washboard, not to mention spend the trip home with no shocks. It is the front shocks that burn up as the front is coil sprung on my Dodge 2500. The rears are fine as leaf springs do much of the help dampening vertical movement. The friction between leafs works as a dampener which is why those smart men who designed the stagecoaches made them as they are. When a leaf compresses there is horizontal friction between leafs to slow the movement. A torsion bar or coil sprung suspension is like a bouncing Superball without a shock. A leaf suspension drives fine with no shock at all! Where as the rubber boots melted right off the fronts, the rear boots (leaf sprung) have not melted at all. I will send these two fronts in for replacement and sell the new fronts and used rears on ebay. I generally swap out my Ranchos or Procomps every 50K just for fun.

@Craig333, Normally I do Saline washboard at 40 to 50 mph. This last time, yesterday, I was in no hurry. Going only 25 mph I wasted those two fronts.

See this link for important Saline Pass washout condition (the pictures are not 3D so they don't nearly do justice to the conditions). Infinitely worse conditions than I have seen in my 29 years of Saline trips: http://forum.salinep...040807?trail=15 You need to be able to crawl at 2 to 3 mph with full torque to go up the Saline South Pass. I have a locker in the rear, without it I'd still be there. You have very steep uphills over boulder fields of which some boulders that you cannot go around, many so large you can not move them. So, if you're in a 1/2 ton or a rice burner your gears may be too high. Going in the South Pass (meaning downhill) any truck with good clearance will make it. You'll need good articulation so if you are running airbags this may limit your control.

[SunMan]

But I'd rather not swap out the shocks after every trip down washboard, not to mention spend the trip home with no shocks.

I figured as much but was curious about the warranty. So far so good on the Ranchos since the replacement, plenty of Baja and DV washboards since then, fingers crossed. Glad you had a good trip otherwise.

[SLO_F-250]

Guys, this is very interesting. I had the exact opposite experience. I built a full size chevy into a prerunner in college. Lets say I went through LOTS of shocks. Blew up pro-comp's 2 sets of ranchos with dual's each side up front, and finally went to dual bilstein 5150's in the front. The were great shocks. My front end cycled 14" of travel at the time and the 5150's worked GREAT! When I finally saved up for 2.5" diameter Racerunners in each corner I took the 5150's and threw them on my F-250 and are still working well after 7 years.

[ntsqd]

I run Bilstein's & Fox's and will NEVER go back to a twin-tube type of damper. Twin-tubes never fail like this because they over-heat and fade away before they get the chance to hurt themselves. Before you give up on a superior design you might try employing two, purpose valved dampers per wheel.

The issue is the heavy axles, particularly the front being coil sprung. If you are blowing them up you're either going too fast for the dampers that you have, or you don't have enough damper to start with, or both. Of course Bilstein would put such a caveat in their literature, they'd be replacing abused dampers willy-nilly if they didn't.
Friends with Early Broncos (lighter front axle under coil springs) used at speed on week-long desert exploration/camp trips use 2.5" body, 5/8" shaft Fox's to keep those suspensions under control. They're not going pre-run or race speeds, but they're not lolly-gagging around either. If it takes that much damper to control a lighter axle then trying to go that fast in a full size with a single 51XX series damper per tire is asking for a failure. Just trying to keep their dust in sight is probably still asking for a failure.

I put 5165's on our '96 CTD. If they don't perform or fail I'll step up to a set of remote reservoir 7100's and use the 5165's valve stacks as the jumping-off point for the damper tune.

[generubin]

I run Bilstein's & Fox's and will NEVER go back to a twin-tube type of damper. Twin-tubes never fail like this because they over-heat and fade away before they get the chance to hurt themselves. Before you give up on a superior design you might try employing two, purpose valved dampers per wheel.

The issue is the heavy axles, particularly the front being coil sprung. If you are blowing them up you're either going too fast for the dampers that you have, or you don't have enough damper to start with, or both. Of course Bilstein would put such a caveat in their literature, they'd be replacing abused dampers willy-nilly if they didn't.
Friends with Early Broncos (lighter front axle under coil springs) used at speed on week-long desert exploration/camp trips use 2.5" body, 5/8" shaft Fox's to keep those suspensions under control. They're not going pre-run or race speeds, but they're not lolly-gagging around either. If it takes that much damper to control a lighter axle then trying to go that fast in a full size with a single 51XX series damper per tire is asking for a failure. Just trying to keep their dust in sight is probably still asking for a failure.

I put 5165's on our '96 CTD. If they don't perform or fail I'll step up to a set of remote reservoir 7100's and use the 5165's valve stacks as the jumping-off point for the damper tune.

Hello ntsqd, you have completely made my point of this thread. Don't go out and buy a set of 5100's which are so heavily promoted by 4wd shops and expect them to work on washboard roads. It was the techs at Bilstein who noted to me that their lit states, "for light off road use only". Yet due to heavy sales promotion by retailers, these are sold in mass to off roaders. Even the NPS was sold many sets only to have to replace them with twin tubes. There's performance and there's reliability. I always choose reliability, might save a life one day.

Yes, I totally get it, I am aware that the twin tube design dampening fades and decreases under heat but I've spent 40 years on the worst washboard imaginable. I've done thousands of miles of the African Sahara, all over Baja and mainland Mexico, all over the USA and Canadian arctic, hundreds of thousands of miles, with never a single shock failure, I always got from point A to point B without oil spraying all over my truck. My Bilsteins blew at 25 mph with less than 1,000 miles on them. Sorry, I am not going to sink myself even deeper into the same design.

As an ex professional mechanic, I used to be all about mods and race parts. In my distant travels I have learned that most failures in the field result from straying from original design and especially overloading above payload.

I understand your shocks with much experimentation and many hundreds of dollars spent won't fade like mine will. I've made it to 56 years old using inexpensive, 100% reliable twin tube design. I think I can go another 20 years till I fall over dead. I suppose if trucks was my #1 hobby, I'd maybe sink that kind of money into shocks. I have too much on my plate already; rental units, fiddles, mandolins, son's college education, girlfriend's health issues, travel, and spare time as my hobbies. Damn! I wish life was simple again!

[generubin]

Though the techs read to me on the phone that the 5100 is "not approved for other than light off-road use", I can not find that info anywhere on the Bilstein site. Even the owner's manual for the shock does not state this.

In looking how to send these two blown shocks in for "lifetime warranty" replacement, the warranty webpage states there is no warranty for shocks used off road. Hmm....WTF!