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Stan: Question about FWC frame weldment


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#1 Walldiver

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

I am thinking of mounting a TV mount next to the louvered passenger side window towards the back in my 2010 Hawk. I tapped on the area and it feels solid. I ran a stud finder across the area and it looks like there is a sheet of aluminum welded in place. When I looked at the only picture that I could find on FWC website of the weldment of the frame, the picure does not show sheet metal there. Maybe you have a more current picture of this area and if it is sheetmetal, how thick is it? If it is not, is there a aluminum extrusion located there?
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#2 WaltK

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

I am thinking of mounting a TV mount next to the louvered passenger side window towards the back in my 2010 Hawk. I tapped on the area and it feels solid. I ran a stud finder across the area and it looks like there is a sheet of aluminum welded in place. When I looked at the only picture that I could find on FWC website of the weldment of the frame, the picure does not show sheet metal there. Maybe you have a more current picture of this area and if it is sheetmetal, how thick is it? If it is not, is there a aluminum extrusion located there?

From my experience experimenting with a studfinder on my Eagle I came to the conclusion that the studfinder was confused by the outer camper skin, which is a sheet of aluminum. The frame of the camper is mostly welded out of very thin square or rectangular aluminum tubing. And the welding is only partial to allow the camper to flex under rough conditions. Typically where tubing joins only one side of the 4 is welded, usually the outside side and only a short length of weld. Inside the camper is thin ply, not much good for supporting a lot of weight. Depends on just how heavy a TV you are talking about. And on the outside the sheet aluminum siding is stapled or screwed directly to the tubing.

The layout of the tubing varies depending on model and year so the only for sure way of knowing the exact layout is pulling panels. The frame layer is 1" thick. There are some wider aluminum C section sections as well, mostly in the upper part of the camper, also very thin material. I will attach a photo of the window side of the sample they have in their show area, not sure the model or year it was not labelled, but it will give you an idea what you are dealing with.
DSC00002w.jpg
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#3 Samo

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

I would call Terry in the Service Department. As your Camper is still under Warranty he will happily let you know how to do it, if possible, without damage to the Camper Frame.
Nice guy! Just be flexible on when is a good time for him to talk with you. ;)
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#4 Walldiver

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

From my experience experimenting with a studfinder on my Eagle I came to the conclusion that the studfinder was confused by the outer camper skin, which is a sheet of aluminum. The frame of the camper is mostly welded out of very thin square or rectangular aluminum tubing. And the welding is only partial to allow the camper to flex under rough conditions. Typically where tubing joins only one side of the 4 is welded, usually the outside side and only a short length of weld. Inside the camper is thin ply, not much good for supporting a lot of weight. Depends on just how heavy a TV you are talking about. And on the outside the sheet aluminum siding is stapled or screwed directly to the tubing.

The layout of the tubing varies depending on model and year so the only for sure way of knowing the exact layout is pulling panels. The frame layer is 1" thick. There are some wider aluminum C section sections as well, mostly in the upper part of the camper, also very thin material. I will attach a photo of the window side of the sample they have in their show area, not sure the model or year it was not labelled, but it will give you an idea what you are dealing with.
DSC00002w.jpg

Thanks for the Pic, according to what I was reading from my stud finder it does somewhat match the picture. Difference is, the sheet alum on my frame seems to extend from the tubing that frames the window to just about a foot from the tubing at the end of the camper and seems to span vertical from the lowest tube of the frame to the top horizontal tube that frames the window. Like you are saying I also believe the alum sheet is welded to the exterior of the frame, but does not seem to be the case on my camper. When I tap the interior panel it feels like the alum sheet is up against the panel. This weekend I am going to do a little probing in the area. The TV I have just weights under 10 lbs and I can use thin wall expanding Nutserts in the sheetmetal to support the mount and TV.
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#5 JBahr

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

The picture that WaltK provided is typical of the passenger side of a Hawk. The vertical frame piece that is forming a "T" with the 5" channel piece above may be your best point of attachment. This vertical frame piece is where the fire extinguisher is attached. The 5" wide channel piece that is the top of your "T" as well as the channel piece that runs the entire length up through the nose, are in fact the "C" shape with the open side facing inside the camper. So you won't hit any metal there.
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Jason Bahr  "Former" Design Engineer Four Wheel Campers, Inc.


#6 Walldiver

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

The picture that WaltK provided is typical of the passenger side of a Hawk. The vertical frame piece that is forming a "T" with the 5" channel piece above may be your best point of attachment. This vertical frame piece is where the fire extinguisher is attached. The 5" wide channel piece that is the top of your "T" as well as the channel piece that runs the entire length up through the nose, are in fact the "C" shape with the open side facing inside the camper. So you won't hit any metal there.

Thanks for the clarification Jason.
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#7 WaltK

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

The picture that WaltK provided is typical of the passenger side of a Hawk. The vertical frame piece that is forming a "T" with the 5" channel piece above may be your best point of attachment. This vertical frame piece is where the fire extinguisher is attached. The 5" wide channel piece that is the top of your "T" as well as the channel piece that runs the entire length up through the nose, are in fact the "C" shape with the open side facing inside the camper. So you won't hit any metal there.

I can vouch for how useless that 5" channel is for attaching anything on the inside of the camper. It's wide side is virtually against the outside siding. Can make it very annoying to come up with anything to attach along one of those too when doing modifications like I am. I am mostly building framing inside that's only attached to the main frame in limited places, the plywood lower area is not as limiting of course. And even the tubing in the frame is very thin so care is needed to attach to it, and more than one attachment point or it will probably pull out.

10 lbs of TV is not much, but remember how much we bounce and vibrate around on Outback roads. Also remember that the frame design is intended to flex, so what you put on should not stop flexing for part of the wall. I'd expect you would want the TV on the back wall, say bridging the large opening on the passenger side of the rear wall to mount your support. I'm not sure about trying a swing arm to get the equivalent position from the wall behind the window. You'd definitely have to tie down a arm like that when moving.

As I noted, the photos of the bare frame are of the only bare frame in FWC's "show" area. Well, not quite, there is a little miniature "bare frame" in that area too. For midgets, maybe, but more likely just a small setup that's easier to take to shows. It's kind of cute. I probably should have gone out on the floor more as there were probably frame stages being built out there somewhere too. But I doubt you would find a complete bare frame so visible out there, this one even has the roof frame attached.

Anyway, I'm going to attach 4 photos, each taken from the opposite wall of the inside of each wall, the structure is almost easier to understand from these inside views. The frame was located in a very difficult spot to photograph, one side near bright sun from a big door, the other side in the gloom and nearly against some concrete for part of it. It was necessary to use a very wide angle lens, so some parts look curved when they are actually straight. The campers that appear near it are in FWC's show section. Please note frames vary, there are some themes in the layout that probably follow through, but the photos are hardly the last word in the frame layout. Typical is a good word to use. I know my Eagle shell is a lot different, creating interesting installation problems. I expect shell frames are the most different as they are not really built up for the usual set of appliances.

Passenger/Window Side:DSC00014w-passenger.jpg DSC00012w-rear.jpg Rear Side:
Driver's Side: DSC00011w-driver.jpg DSC00013w-front.jpg Front Side:
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#8 flipskid

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

Hey Walt I have been to the factory also and have seen the frames, but i dont know what my 2000 year model really looks like on the inside. The weight is not a factor in my circumstances, i could almost line it with a finished ply. help the r factor also!
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#9 WaltK

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

Hey Walt I have been to the factory also and have seen the frames, but i dont know what my 2000 year model really looks like on the inside. The weight is not a factor in my circumstances, i could almost line it with a finished ply. help the r factor also!


I made sure to get a full set of photos of the frame, and also shots of details of some of the demo models they had there, figured they would help, and they have even though my Eagle shell differs quite a bit. In several cases on my build I'm having to offset mount the access doors due to frame match problems. The other choice for some of them would have been to have custom doors built, though even that would not work for everything.

Indeed the arrangement of the frame tubes does vary. Openings are designed in for the appliances and so on for each order near as I can tell, though a good part of the frame is probably fairly standard. Shells don't tend to have openings to match appliances much.

Depending on what you can get out of FWC on the frame arrangement of your particular camper you may very well have to pull wall panels if doing anything extensive. That's what I did on the driver's side of my Eagle shell which is getting a half dozen new things on that wall.
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#10 Tahoems

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:08 AM

Walt just dropped you a line. Trying to figure out what my 2000 Eagle can handle in aftermarket installations.EAGLE SKETCH.gif
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