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Saline Valley Warm Springs Management Plan EIS


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#11 Ted

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

Thanks Smoke for a well stated post and a look at the what it is like on the other side.


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#12 ETAV8R

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:40 AM

Thanks Smoke for a well stated post and a look at the what it is like on the other side.

^^^^This


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#13 Smokecreek1

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:45 AM

Hope things work out there!  You guys can take me on a visit if it does, or maybe I'll write that nasty letter if it doesn't-but doing something about the problem is better  than having another drink and doing nothing-sometimes!

 

Smoke


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#14 clikrf8

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:03 AM

I have never been there, either, but depending on weather and time, we may drive on the Saline Valley Road if this is the one near/in Death Valley. That's the one I have highlighted on the map. 

 

My feeling is that if it is already developed, then maintain that level. The problem is money or lack of. The big RVs and whatever can have their FHU and think they are camping. If it already has official trails, then keep it that way whether for 4x4, ORV, dirt bike, mountain bike, anything with wheels. if there are hiking trails, allow and don't upgrade (downgrade?) to motorized trails. Have either primitive or dispersed camping with setback rules like not camping over grass or by a stream and certainly no new fire pits. If it is truly a wilderness, with endangered species, special unique features, then leave it that way so future generations can enjoy what we have saved. Hiking is fine, on trails, no new ones and no motorized. 

 

Practice Leave No Trace, try to leave it cleaner than how you found it, etc. I am not happy about the permit system for the Wave, but too many people will trash it by graffiti, fire pits, trash, etc. I'd rather not win the lottery for a permit than see it ruined. Even with signs, people are still stupid, careless, arrogant. At Yosemite, they are restoring fields and there are international signs indicating that no off trail use is allowed. A hiking boot about to step on grass is circled in red with a red diagonal slash. Few people obeyed. One couple I pointed out the sign to just shrugged. What do you do about such people? The trouble is that the world loves our wild areas and come by the busloads. 

 

I don't like what others have said they think the government agencies are headed: one extreme or another. Full campgrounds or wilderness. Surely there should be a place for those of us who avoid crowds and want to explore on our own. And, there are and we have found them on BLM and USFS roads. 

 

Rant over. 


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#15 Smokecreek1

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:15 PM

Clihrf8, you sound like a rational person, but unfortunately,  when it comes to public lands management "emotions" and sometimes money speak louder! I don't know how many land use plans (LUP) i have worked on  and then tried to implement over my BLM career.  Many moons ago (early 1980's) -before there was a High Rock/Black Rock Desert NCA, there was nothing there but some grazing allotments and ruined springs; but just about everyone  felt the area (HR) needed some type of special designation and if all things went right---maybe, just maybe one day we could reintroduce Big Horn Sheep!  Soooo, how do you get there, well number one-get the horses, cattle and sheep out? How? We put a LUP together called on all the interest groups for comments, etc., called meeting,  did tours- did all the usual things-and faced all the usual user/saver group comments, stalls, and refusing to change because Grand Dad did it that way, , I don't trust BLM or the Government, save the horses., what about minerals etc.. The problem was  getting the people together to solve the problems and not just spending their time yelling at each other! 

 

My old BLM District Manager(DM)-a wise old range con, got tired of it all, and here is the point I'm trying to make, he got all the interest groups/people and shipped them up to our field camp in High Rock Canyon-Stevens Camp, gave "em food and some booze and told them to come up with a plan! We-the resource staff, were sent along to drive the trucks and answer any questions anyone had.  They could not leave because we had the transportation!  After a few days of being stuck together, cooking and eating meals (and feeding my dog-wolfer-chicken when I was not looking), a drink or two and lot's of cussing and discussing around the camp fire, lot's of driving and looking,  people started to come together, like our best cooks turned out to be a wild horse gal, and an the ORV guy! Lot's of strange alliances and friendships were formed out there. What I'm trying to say, is so over time,  they were now working with people-they now knew as a person-not a thing, and because of that, after several days, a plan was worked out and while it still did take lot's of years, changes  and meetings, draft plans and the such,to implement - it happened! 

 

To get to that rational state, first you got to get people together! One of the reasons , congress to broke is because they go home every weekend and listen to people they agree with-the true believers, instead of staying in town-you know have dinner and drink, do something together and get to know the "Enemy" as people not just as "them".  Maybe we have reached a point that this is not possible anymore, I sure hope not, but that old DM sure had a good idea, and  he used it several more times when difficult things needed to be done.  Enough talk, I must be boring you guys, but it worked!

 

 

Smoke


Edited by Smokecreek1, 17 February 2014 - 08:18 PM.

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#16 LuckyDan

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:24 AM


I don't like what others have said they think the government agencies are headed: one extreme or another. Full campgrounds or wilderness. Surely there should be a place for those of us who avoid crowds and want to explore on our own. And, there are and we have found them on BLM and USFS roads.

Rant over.


If you want to keep that ability to explore on your own in those places special to you, as I mentioned in my earlier post it is in your best interest to make your opinion heard when the opportunity presents itself and/or support those organizations that share your view. Smokecreek covered it in that when the opportunity to express an opinion occurs, often few people or no one shows up or writes in. Thus little is known from an input perspective to influence the decision to be anything but the proposed action. For example the responsible agencies are currently deciding on management for sage grouse. The area in question IIRC covers from western Colorado and Wyoming through a lot of Idaho, Utah and Nevada to include most of south central and south east Oregon. Maybe even the Surprise Valley part of California. If some of the disturbing factors are human activity, be it commercial, residential or recreational those places you currently visit now may not be as easily accessible or seasonally unaccessible in the future. I'd guess a lot of followers of this forum are unaware there is discussion going on. Just as I had no idea about Saline Valley before reading about it here. The point to this is if you have an interest in an area under Federal, State or Local management and have an opinion your ability to have some influence is when the topic is "Ripe" for decision.

Travel On Wanderers......

Edited by LuckyDan, 18 February 2014 - 06:27 AM.

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