2005+ Tacoma Owners

[bsharp007]

Just got back from my very first off road experience with my 2008 Eagle, a fishing excursion deep into the Sierras near Mono Creek up a 2 mile 4WD road to a small lake with hungry German Brown trout ready for my frying pan. When I I finally got to the lake being the cautious type I checked my turn buckles and found one straightened out completely and the bracket thingy that holds the camper to the Tacoma's composite bed bent
I always drive slowly in 2WD or 4WD and check the turn buckles often, never over tightening and I am somewhat experienced with 4WD and the back country.
Any ideas as to why this happened and how to prevent it in the future? I was planning a much longer trip which would feature more extensive off roading, but now I'm wondering.

Any 2005+ Tacoma owners experienced this problem?

 

[camelracer]

bsharp,

From your picture it looks like the bolt holding the bracket to the bed has backed out. Anytime there's enough play between the camper and the truck to allow the camper to move you're going to have a hammering effect. The forces created by the relative motion between the two are much greater than any static force.

I'm not sure what you use to keep the bracket bolts tight but that could be part of the problem. As for the turnbuckles I have found that lock nuts work. I had loosening problems on the Death Valley trip and lock nuts seem to have solved that.

Dick

 

[Alex]

What Dick said. The bolt backed out cause the camper bounce up and down thus bend the bracket.
I use TorkLift external tie down on my Taco.

 

[bsharp007]

The bolt was originally tight when the damage happened. I actually backed the bolt out to get a better look at the bent bracket and see if the bolt itself was in any way damaged or the surrounding area , it wasn't and happened to take the pictures before tightening the bolt back up.
So the bending happened when all the bolts holding the bracket down were tight and all the turn buckles where also tight.
So I think I can rule out that theory, but I can promise you that I will be even more diligent about checking all the bolts before mounting the camper.
Incidently it would be impossible to check the bolts that hold your truck bed to the frame while the camper is on, you can't get to them, curious if other Tacoma owners have had this issue
Now I know I didn't invent this system for 2005+ Tacoma composite beds, so I'm curious to hear from more Tacoma owners and what their experiences have been with 4WC system of attaching the camper to the composite bed.
thanks for the ideas thus far.

 

[INYO]

Been a while since I have taken engineering classes, but I'm sure someone can check my math. My take is that this is purely a levrage problem. It looks like your mounting point to the truck bed is a good 4-6 inches from the camper tie down point. At 90 deg, that would be 4-6 times the force seen at the tiedown (think of a hammer pulling a nail...only you have a giant 4wc as a hammer). If the camper is 1200 lbs each tiedown sees 300 lbs, the bolt that mounts that bracket to the bed sees nothing when the camper is sitting on it. Go over a bump at 1g and it all the sudden sees 1200 lbs (300 * the 4 inches) at that one point. 1/4 inch flat mild steel bar is going to bend.

The reason turn buckles and external tiedowns with 1/4" plate work is because everything is in tension and the plates are sideways. It looks to me if you could get a mounting bolt in that slotted hole you would be fine, but that's probably not an option.

 

[Alex]

Tacoma's frame is pretty flexy. The camper is rigid in compare. It's possible the truck frame try to flex and create enough pull on the bracket which bends it.
I have one rear turnbuckle loose on purpose so that in case the truck bed flex the camper is only tie down at 3 corners. My two front tie downs are external spring loaded so in effect only 1 tie down point is fixed.

 

[chnlisle]

What Alex said. It appears the mounting of the tie down bar is way to far away from the action.

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Some Ideas

bsharp,

These threads do a nice job of addressing the problem you had: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753 and http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654

Your problem reinforced my decision to stay with the factory provided aluminum turnbuckles. When something fails I want it to be the cheapest, easiest to replace part and the turnbuckles are it in the factory provided tie-down system for our Grandby/Dodge combination.

I will start carrying two extra turnbuckles and check them a lot more often too!

Thanks for posting.
'birds

 

[Bat]

I was just curious why you don't bolt it in the bed and use turn buckles. We would get a good rubber mat and bolt it in 3 corners and use turn buckles on the full size trucks.

 

[bsharp007]

I was just curious why you don't bolt it in the bed and use turn buckles. We would get a good rubber mat and bolt it in 3 corners and use turn buckles on the full size trucks.

There might be some confusion, as my original post stated I am using the FWC factory provided turnbuckles. The Tacoma has a composite bed so FWC rigged up a custom fabricated metal bracket that sits on top of the Tacoma composite bed, that bracket is what actually bent. I called FWC campers and am waiting to hear back from them. ALL 2005+ Tacomas have the exact same set up that I have, its the system that FWC has modified for our trucks. According to Stan from FWC, he has never heard of one of these brackets bending, its 3/8 inch hardened steel. Are there any 2005+ Tacoma owners that are running with a FWC that have experienced any issues with the FWC brackets?
Thanks

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

bsharp,

The links provided above directly address your question and deal with a 2008 taco.

'birds

 

[bsharp007]

Tacoma Second Generation

bsharp,

The links provided above directly address your question and deal with a 2008 taco.

'birds

Thanks Bird, I just finished reading those posts and found them informative.
However they did not address the bracket FWC provides becoming damaged. Mine seemed to have been damaged very easily making me wonder if I just got a bad one. Curious if other Tacoma owners have had this custom bracket bend on them?

 

[Alex]

Will,
Other Tacoma driver might not experienced the same issue but that does not mean it won't happen. It really depends on what type of trail/road the truck drives on and how much flex the truck experienced. lqhikers is one of the Tacoma owner uses his truck offroad extensively and to address the potential tie down issue you can see in his post he switch to external spring loaded tie downs.
Do you remember your truck being cross loaded on the trail on your trip?
When I bought my ATC Bobcat, I was not comfortable with the bracket approach so I went with TrokLift. After driving at 20-25mph on the washboard road to Racetrack playa in Death Valley the tie down works great and I'm happy to say I'm glad I used a spring loaded tie down.

 

[mtndog]

I have an 05 Taco w/Finch and have not experienced a bent bracket. I made my own with 1/4" x 2" in the same fashion as FWC supplies. To compensate for the ~4" distance between bed bolt and turnbuckle mount I tacked on a second piece (6" x 1/4" x 2") to the top of the bar so that it covers from the bed bolt hole to/near the end of the hole for turnbuckle as added reinforcement for the rear bar, so effectively it's 1/2" thick steel the last ~6" or so. The bed bolt goes thru the added piece. I still use the aluminum turnbuckles as the weak link. I have also added steel chain with quick links in parallel to the turnbuckles in case of a failure. They are a loose fit, but I feel a needed redundant (and cheap) system as I do drive on rough trails and lots of washboard.

 

[Jack]

Same problem

Took the Eagle off yesterday. Same problem, though not as severe. Our tie down is the standard FWC bar. We've had the Eagle about 3 years now, and consider our off-road activity as relatively mild: Several trips into Saline Valley, Caruthers Canyon, similar places in the Mohave Preserve, and 4W roads in the Anza Borego. About 2 years ago, we did bend the hook on the right rear turn buckle, so it is clear that the bar sees substantial force.

The problem is the rear bar. The front bar bolts are next to the tie down point, and the aluminum turnbuckles should be a sufficient weak link.

The bending force calculations look correct to me, although the forces will be greater if the one of the turn buckles is looser that the others. This says that this will be a problem that will get worse over time for all Taco 2005+ owners with this system. I would suggest that all Taco 2005+ owners check the bar whenever they take the FWC off.

From the previous posts, it looks like ATC has similar tie down bars for the Taco 2005+.

Additional rear external tie-downs are an excellent solution as long as the rear internal tie downs have enough slack so that the externals can take up the initial load.

But I would prefer to keep the system simple, especially since our 4W travel is generally not that demanding. A spring loaded turn buckle, if there is such, might be sufficient, but I think a different bar material and design will still be necessary.

 

[Jack]

Possible Fixes

After posting, I looked again at the Taco and the Eagle. A stronger, U shaped rear bar with a piece welded on each end for the turn buckles is probably the lowest cost fix. Any suggestions on materials and sources?

One other possibility would be to weld a 1/4" thick by 1/2" high by 12" long rib on each side of the ends of the existing bar. It looks like there is enough clearance, but I'm not sure this would add enough strength.

 

[bsharp007]

That Looks Familiar

Jack,
That's very similar to what happened to my FWC bar. Mine was also on the passenger side as well. It happened on what I would call a mild to moderate FWD road especially from where I've seen other people take their campers. I took the bar off and mostly bent it back with a rubber mallet and repainted any of the minor scratches from the turn buckles to prevent rust. You probably already know this the torx bolt that attaches the Tacoma bed is a 55t in size, no one seemed to know that even the local Toyota dealer. I'll let you know what if anything FWC tells me about warranty or otherwise. Just a preliminary thought is FWC needs to make this bar beefier imho.
Will






QUOTE=Jack;24380]Took the Eagle off yesterday. Same problem, though not as severe. Our tie down is the standard FWC bar. We've had the Eagle about 3 years now, and consider our off-road activity as relatively mild: Several trips into Saline Valley, Caruthers Canyon, similar places in the Mohave Preserve, and 4W roads in the Anza Borego. About 2 years ago, we did bend the hook on the right rear turn buckle, so it is clear that the bar sees substantial force.

The problem is the rear bar. The front bar bolts are next to the tie down point, and the aluminum turnbuckles should be a sufficient weak link.

The bending force calculations look correct to me, although the forces will be greater if the one of the turn buckles is looser that the others. This says that this will be a problem that will get worse over time for all Taco 2005+ owners with this system. I would suggest that all Taco 2005+ owners check the bar whenever they take the FWC off.

From the previous posts, it looks like ATC has similar tie down bars for the Taco 2005+.

Additional rear external tie-downs are an excellent solution as long as the rear internal tie downs have enough slack so that the externals can take up the initial load.

But I would prefer to keep the system simple, especially since our 4W travel is generally not that demanding. A spring loaded turn buckle, if there is such, might be sufficient, but I think a different bar material and design will still be necessary.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jack]

Jack,
You probably already know this the torx bolt that attaches the Tacoma bed is a 55t in size, no one seemed to know that even the local Toyota dealer. I'll let you know what if anything FWC tells me about warranty or otherwise. Just a preliminary thought is FWC needs to make this bar beefier imho.
Will

[/QUOTE]

Did not know what the bolt was - thanks!

When I took the FWC off yesterday, I did not notice the bend - it was only after reading your post that I went out and looked again. I suspect that the bend was there the previous time I took the FWC off, but did not notice then as well. It won't be until fall that we are back in the SoCal desert, so with luck, there will be a recommended fix by then.

I strongly urge other Taco 2005+ owners to check their bars, including the ones on the bed of their Tacos .

I emailed Stan to let him know that bsharp007 is not the only one with bent bars.

 

[robojeeper]

2nd mounting hole bracket

I noticed a 2nd mounting hole near the end of bracket.Is it feasable to add additional bolt to hold down bracket closer to the end maybe a bracket on the underside that will mount to frame?I had a bracket on my jeep for the roll bar that sat off the side of frame and solved that problem for safety and strength.

 

[SunMan]

I noticed a 2nd mounting hole near the end of bracket.Is it feasable to add additional bolt to hold down bracket closer to the end maybe a bracket on the underside that will mount to frame?I had a bracket on my jeep for the roll bar that sat off the side of frame and solved that problem for safety and strength.

Agree. It looks like another bolt closer to the end might solve the problem. You would of course need to look at what is under the bed before drilling any new holes.