3/4 ton is not the end all

[ThinAir]

I've discussed my upgraded to the front end of my 07 5.9 CTD short box crew in another post here but just wanted to let folks know my experience with the Ram 2500 since there seems to be much discussion about whether to get a 1500 or a 2500 truck. Not taking into consideration brakes of course, my opinion now is that you'll spend just as much upgrading suspension on a 2500 (at least a Dodge) as you would on any 1500. I purchased a new Hawk shell with dinette and did all the rest of the interior upgrades to make it a "camper" without all the bells and whistles of a FWC and save some dough. I do have a 22 gal water tank, two 10 gal lp tanks identical to FWC on their camper. Beyond that I also have two batteries instead of one. So basically same deal as a FWC Hawk "Camper" model.

My rear springs are nearly flattened out and are close to the overloads, truck feels top heavy and you definitely know you have a large heavy item in the bed of the truck. So this business of saying "buy a 3/4 ton and it doesn't even know the camper is back there" is a pipedream in my experience. I am nearly as uncomfortable with the Hawk camper on the back of my 3/4 ton as I was with my Finch shell on my Frontier.

So now it looks like I will continue to invest into the suspension as anyone would with a 1500. Springs, bags, etc.

I have put in a new red head steering box, dynatrac ball joints, new load range E 285/70 Hankook's, new BD steering brace, new T style steering link and dragbar, new swaybar bushings, new bilstein 5100 shocks, and yet the truck still yearns for more of a solid foundation under it. I'm running 70 lbs pressure in the tires front and back.

So unless Ford or Chevy has a beefier spring pack than Dodge, the 3/4 ton myth is busted in my opinion based on my experience. Going to a custom spring shop tomorrow to get it resolved. Est. $500

 

[busboy66]

This is indeed surprising. chnlisle, generubin, pods8, k7mdl and others have Ram 2500/3500 trucks. Maybe they can comment.

 

[n0izh]

I've discussed my upgraded to the front end of my 07 5.9 CTD short box crew in another post here but just wanted to let folks know my experience with the Ram 2500 since there seems to be much discussion about whether to get a 1500 or a 2500 truck. Not taking into consideration brakes of course, my opinion now is that you'll spend just as much upgrading suspension on a 2500 (at least a Dodge) as you would on any 1500. I purchased a new Hawk shell with dinette and did all the rest of the interior upgrades to make it a "camper" without all the bells and whistles of a FWC and save some dough. I do have a 22 gal water tank, two 10 gal lp tanks identical to FWC on their camper. Beyond that I also have two batteries instead of one. So basically same deal as a FWC Hawk "Camper" model.

My rear springs are nearly flattened out and are close to the overloads, truck feels top heavy and you definitely know you have a large heavy item in the bed of the truck. So this business of saying "buy a 3/4 ton and it doesn't even know the camper is back there" is a pipedream in my experience. I am nearly as uncomfortable with the Hawk camper on the back of my 3/4 ton as I was with my Finch shell on my Frontier.

So now it looks like I will continue to invest into the suspension as anyone would with a 1500. Springs, bags, etc.

I have put in a new red head steering box, dynatrac ball joints, new load range E 285/70 Hankook's, new BD steering brace, new T style steering link and dragbar, new swaybar bushings, new bilstein 5100 shocks, and yet the truck still yearns for more of a solid foundation under it. I'm running 70 lbs pressure in the tires front and back.

So unless Ford or Chevy has a beefier spring pack than Dodge, the 3/4 ton myth is busted in my opinion based on my experience. Going to a custom spring shop tomorrow to get it resolved. Est. $500

My buddy and I are both scratching our heads??? I have a 2002 3/4 4x4 with a Granby. My buddy has a similar setup with an off brand I can't think of at the moment. Both our trucks springs still have a decent arch to them with the campers on, and a ways to go before the overload spring loads up. The campers stay on the trucks all the time and I have no handling complaints. I just pulled a 21 foot (old school, heavy) trailer with the camper on this weekend and the combined load was just resting on the overload spring. The only time I have seen my springs as flat as the photo above was when I hooked up to a 18,000 lb. boat and moved it a few miles down the road the a repair shop. Is there any chance the short bed trucks have 1500 springs??? The Spring shop should be able to tell. I'm interested in hearing the resolution!

John

 

[chnlisle]

Wow I have an 8' ATC Cougar on a '06 CTD short box. With all our gear and water and propane etc we don't even know it's back there. Sure the suspension goes down about 3/4" but thats about it. The suspension is rock stock. Here's a picture of it and it's not on level ground. The front of the truck is on slightly higher ground.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jayaronowcampersales/6002678960/in/photostream

 

[craig333]

Just look at a 1500 compared to a 2500. Night and day on the beefiness of the suspension and drivetrain components.

I have no idea why your truck is so different. Mine is a daily driver, camper has only been off once, and while the steering has been upgraded I've done no suspension mods other than shocks. I really don't notice the camper back most of the time. I should also mention, I don't plan on doing any suspension mods either. Fine as it is now.

 

[K7MDL]

I can say my findings which includes a partial comparison to the same year RAM 1500 and 2500 which might add perspective on one part of the camparison.

I had a 2005 1500 and replaced it with a 2005 2500, both Hemi. Ran a full size 8ft Pastime camper and only added rear airbags and rear Hellwig sway bar to level it out and best performance in the wind and twisty roads. On the overloads it was quite decent, but wanted back end level so added airbags. It drops to the overloads quickly in order to give a decent ride unloaded. My son has the 2010 RAM 1500 short bed also with smaller 4.X engine. They are slowly upping the 1/2 ton payloads to keep up with the Jones.

I can definately say the 3/4 ton handles much larger payloads better. A simple apples and apples test was bringing home a full loads of bark and gravel. The 2500 is a long box and filled higher and totally better handling under the load than the short box 1500 (smaller capacity so smaller load). Dropping from the full size camper to the Grandby cut the weight by half and increased my MPG by 2. Towing a boat is about the same as expected.

I changed to a Grandby loaded it everything and another 500lbs of motorcycle carrier. I removed the sway bars, not required, and replaced the airbbags with Timbren rubber springs to lift the back up a bit. Since they only attached at one end (Chassis) the axle can drop and get more stock articulation with no air bag stretch/tearing. This has been and excellent solution, rest of the truck is stock including tires, but looking to go to LT285/75R-17 on the stock rims soon.have 76K miles, 20K I put on in the last 2 years. A MegaRam 1500 owner bought my old airbags.

I find it interesting that people are changing out the front end components so often, I feel nothing ill about my stock front end so far. Maybe I do not know what aftermarket feels like? . Maybe I got lucky and mine was less abused, although I have many scratches on the external box paint probably from pulling bales of hay out. The trailer hitch recevier showed it has been used plenty, I am guessing a horse trailer. Bought it at 55K miles.

As a contrast, I am an obsessive modder when it comes to performance and reliability on my street and offroad motorcycles.

Hope the mods make it just right for you.

 

[RamRider]

I've got 08 power wagon which I believe has somewhat smaller payload because of softer longer travel rear springs. None the less mine is nowhere near flat under weight of camper. I wouldn't claim I don't notice it especially in corners but overall it's mostly just smoothed the ride a bit. Springs are nicely arched still.

 

[Phird05]

Something doesn't sound right Thinair. I have an 08 F-150, and I can't even come close to what you are describing with your truck. The only upgrades I did were E load range tires and Firestone airbags. I noticed the biggest difference when I upgraded to the E range tires. Virtually got rid of all the "mushyness" I had with the old stock tires. The airbags are basically there to level the load more than anything. Yes, I do know I have a camper on my truck, but the truck handles great and I take it wherever I want to into the back country. I do have the 5.4 L and the tow package as well, so that may may a bit of a difference. Did you do all of those upgrades for other reasons, or did you do all of that to satisfy the camper load issue?

 

[pods8]

This is indeed surprising. chnlisle, generubin, pods8, k7mdl and others have Ram 2500/3500 trucks. Maybe they can comment.


I switched to a 2500 last winter and haven't put the camper on it at all yet (latest newborn has been a distraction ).

 

[rotti]

I can't speak to your Dodge 3/4, but my old 1983 Chevy K20 handled my previous Granby with no issues and absolutely no suspension modifications other than shocks. First time I have heard of suspension issues on a 3/4 ton of any brand with FWC campers.

Update to the present with a new Hawk sitting on a new 2012 Chevy 2500HD crew cab. The Hawk, on the scales, came in at 1350 pounds dry, empty, and the jacks off. The rear dropped about two inches and it still sits about 1 1/2 inches high in the back. I only have less than a thousand miles on the rig but I can say this combo handles like a dream. The things that really stand out for me is the braking power, smooth ride and cornering ease. Suspension mods definitely not needed.

Now if I could only pick up another four or five miles per gallon.

 

[Smokecreek1]

I can't speak to your Dodge 3/4, but my old 1983 Chevy K20 handled my previous Granby with no issues and absolutely no suspension modifications other than shocks. First time I have heard of suspension issues on a 3/4 ton of any brand with FWC campers.

Update to the present with a new Hawk sitting on a new 2012 Chevy 2500HD crew cab. The Hawk, on the scales, came in at 1350 pounds dry, empty, and the jacks off. The rear dropped about two inches and it still sits about 1 1/2 inches high in the back. I only have less than a thousand miles on the rig but I can say this combo handles like a dream. The things that really stand out for me is the braking power, smooth ride and cornering ease. Suspension mods definitely not needed.

Now if I could only pick up another four or five miles per gallon.


Hey, my old 99 F150 1/2 ton does the Granby a good trip-but I have 3/4 ton special springs on the back, so maybe that's not fair-but it sure runs and handles good-both off and on road!

Smoke

 

[sdmarkus]

Just ordered airbags for my 2500HD, seemed like a sweet mod for +/- $300.

The rear end sags a bit with the camper on with plenty of travel left, definitely raises the headlights.

This thread is beginning to make me think that airbags on my truck is overkill

Thoughts?

 

[MarkBC]

Just ordered airbags for my 2500HD, seemed like a sweet mod for +/- $300.
The rear end sags a bit with the camper on with plenty of travel left, definitely raises the headlights.
This thread is beginning to make me think that airbags on my truck is overkill
Thoughts?

After a couple years of people flashing their high-beams at me because they thought I had mine on, even though I didn't (because the rear end sunk down a bit by the camper and so the front end was up)...and a few months more of thinking "Maybe I should adjust my headlights so they point down more..."...I finally made the right choice and got Firestone Ride Rites, and so my truck was level again and people don't flash their high beams at me.
And as a side-effect, it corners much better, less roll.


As I've said before, I'm not much of a truck guy...so I don't understand why my truck has overload springs on the rear which won't engage/share-the-load until the rear is waaay down -- squatting big-time. The headlights at that point would be pointing at the sky.
Maybe I should just remove them and save some weight...

 

[K7MDL]

Figure most trucks sold are running around as commuters and unloaded, the driver appreciates not having to wear a kidney belt traveling to work everyday. A few times a year a load of bark comes home that forces the soft suspension to drop onto teh overloads and carry serious loads, the squat looks funny, but this is temporary and it handles the load fine. Those of us that carry heavy loads most of the time will be motivated to install a harder suspension. When you take a test drive at the dealer, it is unloaded. When the typical car/truck review magazine test drives for the article, they are rating comfort unloaded. Softer suspension = comfort= more truck sales. Us heavy haulers are the minority.

My old 75 Ford F250 Camper Special shook your insides up big time driving down a typical road. It was fun to measure how far I would bounce off the seat hit highway expansion joints. Wife did not like that truck. Only had a tall canopy shell on it.

I believe the Power Wagon also has softer/different front suspension as well as the rear.

 

[MarkBC]

Figure most trucks sold are running around as commuters and unloaded, the driver appreciates not having to wear a kidney belt traveling to work everyday.

Yeah, that make sense. Still, on my rig it looks like the load would have to be at or beyond the truck's rated capacity before the overloads even touch. The overloads weren't engaged/touching even with my camper on.
Doesn't really matter...just curious.

 

[pods8]

I believe the Power Wagon also has softer/different front suspension as well as the rear.


Both are softer spring rates, however I tend to suspect its mainly the rear leafs that are the main cause for derating the payload. The fronts still have the normal weight of the engine sitting on them PLUS about 200+lb worth of winch/winch mount/disconnecting sway bar and only see a portion of the increased weight when the bed is loaded up. As I've mentioned in the past if I want to add a little lift up front I'll likely toss in a set of power wagon coils, they're normally a 2" lift so even with seeing some extra weight from the camper there still should be a solid 1-1.5" if not the full 2".

 

[RamRider]

Power Wagon has 2" taller springs/leafs. Not sure if fronts are any softer since they have to cope with additional weight. Leafs are different taller 7 leaf pack instead of 4. With camper loaded rear sagged but front not really much. Cold be some but hard to tell.
Payload is derated mostly because of same Maximum GVWR it's same to the pound as regular Hemi but truck is 300-400lb heavier.

 

[leadsled9]

Just ordered airbags for my 2500HD, seemed like a sweet mod for +/- $300.

The rear end sags a bit with the camper on with plenty of travel left, definitely raises the headlights.

This thread is beginning to make me think that airbags on my truck is overkill

Thoughts?


I don't think the airbags are overkill on a 3/4 ton truck with a camper. When my Hawk camper was installed on my truck the rear end sagged an inch or so......after installation of the airbags it took very little pressure to bring the back end up to stock height. The main reason I added the airbags was for the headlight issue but I'm sure they assist in load carrying too.

 

[pods8]

Power Wagon has 2" taller springs/leafs. Not sure if fronts are any softer since they have to cope with additional weight. Leafs are different taller 7 leaf pack instead of 4. With camper loaded rear sagged but front not really much. Cold be some but hard to tell.
Payload is derated mostly because of same Maximum GVWR it's same to the pound as regular Hemi but truck is 300-400lb heavier.


The dodge forums tend to believe the spring rate is in fact softer for the PW coils and the extra weight is factored into the length the coil is built to. The 7 leaf packs are most definitely softer to allow more articulation.

Do you have a quad cab/short box? If so is your GVWR still 8800lb (that is what my QC, short box hemi is)? I know with the winch/skid plates/etc. the PW is heavier but I thought the GVWR was lowered a bit as well.

 

[leadsled9]

That brings up a good point.

ThinAir, what is the GVWR of your truck?

My trucks GVWR is 10,000 lbs.