Air Bag brands

[Flyfisher]

Hi Folks - I've been a lurker for a while and sure do appreciate all the knowledge that has been shared here, especially about suspension. I just got my '06 Tundra and '05 Hawk. After doing as lot of research on this site, I think that I will go with air bags (they seem to fit what I need best). My question is: There are a few different brands of air bags out there and I am wondering if there are significant differences between them? I have looked at Firestone and Air Lift (there are probably more) and the shape of the bag is quite different. Does this affect performance? Are some brands more reliable than others?
Thank you,
Gregg

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Hi Folks - I've been a lurker for a while and sure do appreciate all the knowledge that has been shared here, especially about suspension. I just got my '06 Tundra and '05 Hawk. After doing as lot of research on this site, I think that I will go with air bags (they seem to fit what I need best). My question is: There are a few different brands of air bags out there and I am wondering if there are significant differences between them? I have looked at Firestone and Air Lift (there are probably more) and the shape of the bag is quite different. Does this affect performance? Are some brands more reliable than others?
Thank you,
Gregg

Gregg,welcome to the site.I have a 2002 Tundra Limited with a ATC Bobcat and decided to go with the Firestone air bags.On the previous truck a Ranger I went with the Supersprings which worked fine for that truck.The reason I went for the air bags is that I wanted to have the option to be able to level the truck side to side.With most of the camper weight on the drivers side I can have different air pressure on each side.It works well.I run about 20# on left and 15# on the right.Makes the truck level all the way around.Also when at a camp spot you can also do some leveling.
I will have to admit I was not sold on the bags for the first truck,but now I wouldn't have anything else.
Good luck
Frank

 

[buckland]

Hey there, I have a 2001 Tacoma with a 2011 Eagle... I put the Firestone air bags on when I got the camper and it was great difference...smoothed out the ride and leveled it as well.... that said I still did not feel comfortable with the weight even though I never had any trouble and we do rough backwoods travel. So I added another leaf in the pack and that made a big difference in ride. I also feel better knowing the weight is supported better.
The bags will definitely make the truck ride flat with no lean or drag ass. I recommend the firestone... double the time they suggest as install time and DEFINITELY DO NOT USE THE BOLTS.... BUY STAINLESS!

 

[Brad's Dad]

Hey there, I have a 2001 Tacoma with a 2011 Eagle... I put the Firestone air bags on when I got the camper and it was great difference...smoothed out the ride and leveled it as well.... that said I still did not feel comfortable with the weight even though I never had any trouble and we do rough backwoods travel. So I added another leaf in the pack and that made a big difference in ride. I also feel better knowing the weight is supported better.
The bags will definitely make the truck ride flat with no lean or drag ass. I recommend the firestone... double the time they suggest as install time and DEFINITELY DO NOT USE THE BOLTS.... BUY STAINLESS!


I am expecting my Firestone airbags to arrive tomorrow. Just a question about your recommendation of stainless bolts. I have read the factory bolts are poor quality and planned to upgrade to grade 5 or 8 bolts. My experience with some stainless hardware is that they are actually not much if any stronger than grade 3 bolts. Is the problem with the factory bolts soft material or corrosion related? I think higher grade stainless fasteners could be acquired to meet both requirements (at high cost) but I am unsure what qualities I am actually looking for in replacement bolts.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Fred

 

[Argonaut20]

Grade 5 should work, though Grade 8 would give a feeling of security. I don't think deterioration of those types of bolt is a problem unless you are parking in salt water infested environment.

 

[ntsqd]

According to mcmaster.com:
Stainless bolts are commonly 18-8 alloy, tensile strength of about 70,000 psi.
Grade 5 bolts have a tensile strength of about 90,000 psi.
Grade 8 bolts have a tensile strength of about 150,000 psi.

Ductility (ability to bend w/o breaking) in Grade 8 bolts is considerably inferior to that of the MIL-STD for Socket Head Cap Screws (SHCS, "Allen Bolts") even though the SHCS have a 180,000 psi tensile strength (up to 1/2", beyond 1/2" they are 170,000 psi).

Shear strength for each type will be roughly 57% of the respective tensile strength.

Buy them by the shoulder length, not the commonly quoted Underhead Length. You want only shoulder in the holes, no threads. Use "grade 8" washers as necessary to not bottom out the nuts on the end of the threads. Also suggest buying all metal lock nuts, sometimes referred to as "Stover Nuts" and sometimes called "prevailing torque lock-nuts."

 

[Phird05]

Hi Folks - I've been a lurker for a while and sure do appreciate all the knowledge that has been shared here, especially about suspension. I just got my '06 Tundra and '05 Hawk. After doing as lot of research on this site, I think that I will go with air bags (they seem to fit what I need best). My question is: There are a few different brands of air bags out there and I am wondering if there are significant differences between them? I have looked at Firestone and Air Lift (there are probably more) and the shape of the bag is quite different. Does this affect performance? Are some brands more reliable than others?
Thank you,
Gregg



I installed the Firestone Ride-Rite airbags and have had ZERO problems. Easy to install and for me, they have handled just fine on some very rough access roads to my favorite places. Just make sure you set up the air lines independently for each side so you can fill the air bags with different pressures as the weight on each side will surely be different. I had a friend rig them with a single fill valve and after a very short time realized he should have set them up independently.


Good Camping!

Paul

 

[buckland]

I bow to the more techo bolt info folks.... I went with Stainless as I live in an area with salt and sand 7 months of the year... New England where cars don't get old they dissolve. (Today I had to sand blast the differential and epoxy it with JB weld. It had rusted through and was leaking seriously!)

 

[ntsqd]

Stainless in your part of the world is likely a very good call. I used to live ~1000 yards down-wind of the rust and corrosion blowing in of the Pacific Ocean. You have my sympathy.

 

[SunMan]

I installed the Firestone Ride-Rite airbags and have had ZERO problems. Easy to install and for me, they have handled just fine on some very rough access roads to my favorite places. Just make sure you set up the air lines independently for each side so you can fill the air bags with different pressures as the weight on each side will surely be different. I had a friend rig them with a single fill valve and after a very short time realized he should have set them up independently.


Good Camping!

Paul



I generally don't comment on these threads because of all of the hullaballoo on the subject but I will concur with Paul on this one. I'm going on 6 years of beating the tar out of mine with zero issues. Can't say enough about Firestones.

 

[Brad's Dad]

I generally don't comment on these threads because of all of the hullaballoo on the subject but I will concur with Paul on this one. I'm going on 6 years of beating the tar out of mine with zero issues. Can't say enough about Firestones.


Thanks, and I take it the factory fasteners have held up OK for you?

Discussion with Firestone ended with "factory fasteners are fine if you don't seriously abuse your vehicle- voids warranty if you change fasteners and they are designed with the fasteners they come with to break rather than tearing out holes in your frame". Hmmmmm.....

Fred

 

[SunMan]

Thanks, and I take it the factory fasteners have held up OK for you?

Discussion with Firestone ended with "factory fasteners are fine if you don't seriously abuse your vehicle- voids warranty if you change fasteners and they are designed with the fasteners they come with to break rather than tearing out holes in your frame". Hmmmmm.....

Fred



I took precautionary measures and upgraded to grade 8's after I saw some bending and partial failure on TT's stock bolts, I thought it was best before experiencing full on failure in the bush, which I believe would have likely happened. No issues since and I check regularly after a solid thrashing. At the time of replacement the stock bolts seemed fine but can't remember the previous inflicted abuse....zero frame damage at this time (6 years)...YMMV.

 

[imcolej]

I installed the Firestone Ride-Rite airbags and have had ZERO problems. Easy to install and for me, they have handled just fine on some very rough access roads to my favorite places. Just make sure you set up the air lines independently for each side so you can fill the air bags with different pressures as the weight on each side will surely be different. I had a friend rig them with a single fill valve and after a very short time realized he should have set them up independently.


Good Camping!

Paul


Quick question on this. I am about to order some Ride-Rites for my 06 Tundra DC. Does everything you need for independent airlines for both sides come in the kit? Or is there some extras I need to order to make this happen? Thanks

 

[Brad's Dad]

Quick question on this. I am about to order some Ride-Rites for my 06 Tundra DC. Does everything you need for independent airlines for both sides come in the kit? Or is there some extras I need to order to make this happen? Thanks


I haven't installed mine yet but have gone through the install parts. Looks like it's complete for independent set up.

FYI. Factory includes grade 8 bolts for upper bag brackets, grade 2 carriage bolts for the lower brackets that attach to the leaf springs and grade 2 flange nuts for both of the previous bolts. Hmmmmm.

Fred

 

[imcolej]

I haven't installed mine yet but have gone through the install parts. Looks like it's complete for independent set up.

Fred



Thanks for the info Fred!

 

[JHanson]

I strongly second the cautions regarding stainless steel bolts. The advantage of stainless bolts is just that. They exhibit no other superior qualities, and as Thom's post demonstrated are not as strong as many non-stainless fasteners. Cadmium-plated grade 8 bolts are very resistant to corrosion.

The Firestone bags are excellent, and worth the extra investment over Air Lift. I installed Boss air bags on our Tacoma and they are excellent as well. We just returned from a trip into the Sierra Madre that had us on three wheels now and then, suspension fully flexed, and they held up just fine.

 

[gary515]

I will be getting my ATC Bobcat about mid June. Today I dropped off my 2001 Tundra at a large West coast tire dealer to have Firestone ride rite air bags installed. They said it would take about two hours. About 20 min later I received a call from them advising me they could not install the air bags on my Tundra. The guy said something about my auto brake system being in the way. I told him my truck was stock and how could this be a problem. He said they occasionally get a Tundra in with the same problem. I asked if it was possible to make it fit someway. Answer was no. He said I will have to go with Timbrens.

My 2001 Tundra is a 4WD extra cab and NOT a TRD.

When I got home I called Firestone and talked to tech support. They acted surprised at the info I provided. He wanted me to send him pictures of rear wheel area. I did so and am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime the tire shop ordered the Timbrens for my truck. I would prefer to go with the airbags.

I have used this tire dealer for years and trust them. Has anyone a similar problem with a Tundra.

 

[Phird05]

Quick question on this. I am about to order some Ride-Rites for my 06 Tundra DC. Does everything you need for independent airlines for both sides come in the kit? Or is there some extras I need to order to make this happen? Thanks


I'm surprised at the tire guys not being able to install the bags. If Firestone said they would fit a specific stock vehicle, I would think that would be the case. Especially as easy as they are to install.

Everything I needed was included in the kit. No drilling, and enough air line material to do independent lines. I just mounted the valves on either side of the license plate. Since I carry my road bicycle almost everywhere I go, I always have my bike pump with me so I can easily adjust the bags as needed.


Good Camping,

Paul

 

[gary515]

Thanks for your reply Paul. I called the tire store back this morning to have them explain the problem again. It seems it is not that they cannot install the bags. The problem they are concerned about has to do with the brake proportioner. He said when load is put on truck and air bags inflated truck thinks there is no load and the brake system uses the front brake pads excessively. This makes the front brake pads wear out faster.

They said other shops would install them but it is their policy to avoid the wear problem and not install them on Tundra's of my year.

So that's about it. I will have to decide whether to have the job done elsewhere or go with the Timbrens.

Have any of you 1st gen Tundra owners had any problems with excessive brake wear in front with the ride rites.

Thanks for your replies.

Gary

 

[ntsqd]

I didn't realize that LSPV's (Load Sensing Proportioning Valve) were ever used on the Tundy's. Figured that they were load compensated with the ABS system somehow.

Air bags should physically fit with an LSPV since it historically is located between the frame rails and may only interfere with the mounting brackets on one side, though they're usually located aft far enough that I wouldn't expect it to. It's more an issue of what it is and what it does. Via a lever connected to the rear axle housing the valve changes the rear brake pressure with changes in load. The more that you squat the suspension, the more rear brake pressure you will get. Classically they don't have a lot of adjustment range. With taller tires and a 'glass shell on my '84 Mini I run with the lever all of the up (lever is disconnected from the rear axle) and it is extremely rare that the rears want to lock up first. Can't ever recall an instance of such.

In your case you will be putting XXX lbs. in the bed, but the LSPV won't know it is there due to the air springs. So you will be stopping that extra weight with the brakes in an "unloaded" mode. So yes, it will work the front brakes a little bit harder. You may or may not get away with setting the lever to the position it would be in with no air pressure in the air springs when there is actually air pressure in the springs. In other words, make a measurement to some reference point from the tip of the lever with no air pressure, but with a full camping load. Then add air pressure to achieve the ride attitude desired and re-measure. The difference is how far up the tip of the lever must go. Might have to make an extension bracket to pull this off. Basically you're fooling the LSPV into thinking that there is a load in the bed (when there really is!), but when the lever's correct position would be telling the LSPV that there isn't a load.
NOTE THAT THIS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE IF THE CAMPER IS A PERMANENT RESIDENT OF THE TRUCK. If you take the camper off for any reason you absolutely need to re-adjust the lever or the rear tires will lock, sending you god only knows where.