Bears!

[gray]

On some other forums, one of the concerns people have about popup campers is bear intrusions.

How big a problem is that?

I know people that tent camp in bear country. Sure, they have to put their food, etc. on bear wires, but that doesn't seem like a big deal.

When you use your ATC in bear areas, what special precautions do you take? Is food in the fridge or cooler safe, or does everything need to be up on a wire or in bear cannisters?

thanks,
--gray

 

[pvstoy]

Hi Gray,

Here is a good post to start reading if you missed it.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=643

 

[HikerCook]

bears and habituated bears

I’m an avid backpacker and this subject is discussed endlessly among that group.

The average black bear is a shy creature and will usually avoid contact with humans. When they do come nosing around there’re easily deterred by making noise, typically shouting or banging pots and pans. If you want, you can hang your food, garbage, and toiletries away from your camper using the counter-balance method described here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html
, but remember that the odors from these items will remain in your camper.

The real problem is with habituated bears. Those that have learned to associate campers with easy pickings. These bears can be quite aggressive in their quest and have learned to defeat even the most sophisticated hanging methods. In this case bear resistant lockers or canisters are about the only guaranteed solution. Fortunately these bears are most often encountered in established campgrounds and lockers are usually provided.

In any case, the type of camper is of no consequence, tent, pop-up, or hard sided are all vulnerable. There’s an interesting collection of photographs in a campground office at Yosemite NP that will attest to this.

Here in California the Sierra Interagency Black Bear Group has the responsibility for establishing rules and protocols for minimizing camper vs. bear encounters and a lot of information can be found here:
http://www.sierrawildbear.gov

 

[craig333]

I've seen a bear rip a car door open so I do have respect for the bears, but on the other hand, I"ve never really had a problem with them in all my years of camping. Generally where you have those habituated bears you'll be provided with bear resistant storage. And in all my time of dry camping I've never had my camp approached by a bear.

 

[John D]

For those qualified and wanting a gun for their FWC/ATC, the Marlin Guide Gun with an 18 ½ inch barrel is hard to beat. Canada requires a minimum barrel length of 18 ½ inches. The minimum in the US is 18 inches. The “Guide Gun” is designed to be carried by a guide who stands behind his client on a bear or moose hunt. If the client misses his shot and the bear or moose charges, the guide is there to save his client’s life. Marlin’s guide guns are purpose made for that job. The powerful 45-70 rounds they fire are effective against large animals. The cartridge is available loaded with rubber bullets that do not penetrate a bear but can haze the animal into avoiding humans. The round is also available in special shot loads which I would use for defense against human beings because they are less likely to be lethal and have a very short range, about 15 yards, safer in populated areas. Whether dealing with bears or people, one should use only enough force to discourage or prevent an attack. A tactic for self defense that is taught to law enforcement and military personnel is using a short rifle as a club, poking the steel barrel into the body or face of an assailant, avoiding lethal force if possible. Escalate appropriately depending on the threat. One trained in these tactics and armed with a Guide Gun need fear no man or beast.

 

[Buzz]

For my AK trip in the spring I will be shipping a .44 revolver ahead for pickup up when I drive back into the good ole USA. This will be good for trail work. I am considering a 12 GA for a camp gun - very effective at short range.

However, my first line of defense at the camp will be an electric fence. There are battery powered packages made for backpackers, but they are costly. I looked around and found the same charger and fence wire, posts, etc at Tractor supply, for a lot less money. Here's a link to the manufacturer's charger:
http://www.zarebasystems.com/products/ProductDetails.aspx?id=247

This approach has proven to be quite effective in keeping bears out of fresh kills till the hunter can return. Search the net for more info.

-Buzz

 

[John D]

The electric fence is a good thing. They are used in zoos. In addition, there is always a barrier the bears cannot scale as the real safety.

The 12 gauge pump shotgun is your real protection. If your shotgun has a smooth bore, use rifled slugs against big bears. In a fully rifled barrel, use sabot slugs. There are so many options on ammunition I decided to buy my bear loads in Alaska, where there is more experience on the proper loads. Consult with local hunters or conservation officials. When you are hiking, carry the shotgun, except in national parks (and provincial parks) where the bears are selected by the government to not bite.

 

[Buzz]

I would like to take my 870 riot gun, but the 18" barrel may not get through Canada Customs. I find their firearms laws to be quite restrictive and difficult to understand.

When I crossed seven years ago, possession of pepper spray was illegal. Then, I was talking with some road crew in BC, who said it is legal to carry the larger canisters that were marked for bear protection. Screwy laws, if you ask me.

So far, I have not found anyone who has crossed the border with some personal protection.

-Buzz

 

[Brian]

Guns and Canada...

Canadian gun laws have, in part, sprung out of the active rebellion in Quebec by some violent separatists. Canadian law enforcement really does not like people bringing guns into the country and then not knowing where they are....with the idea they may well make their way to Quebec and be used against the powers that be. If you have a legitimate reason (competition, hunting, etc) they will make allowances.
Years ago if you were going to Alaska or coming down to the lower 48, Canadian customs would seal your handguns and expect you to check in with Canadian customs on your way out of the country. You don't go through Canadian customs on your way out of Canada, so unless you were to stop at the customshouse to have the guns unsealed there was no way for customs to know if the guns ever left Canada. That just wasn't done much and if you have ever spent time in Alaska you would understand the mentality that causes that kind of action. Canadians aren't stupid and after a short while of people blowing them off, they just nixed the whole thing. They have a perfect right to do that and they enjoy a very low per capita level of gun assisted crime as a result of their laws.
Now I know a large number of Alaskans who just don't go anywhere without a gun.....they like the rules even less than you do.

Brian

 

[John D]

Buzz,

Has anyone recently traveled through Canada with a firearm? Yes. Me. I think I posted that information before, but owners of FWC/ATC campers need to know the facts.

Canadian law calls for a minimum barrel length of 470 mm (18.5 inches). Your 18 inch barrel is too short. I had the same problem. My home defense shotgun (pictured) has an 18 inch smooth bore barrel, which is legal in the United States but is illegal in Canada. Thus, I purchased a new 21 inch fully rifled barrel and installed it for the trip to Canada. The different barrels drop in and can be easily switched. I left the illegal in Canada 18 inch barrel at home in the US. I took the now rifled gun with its 21 inch barrel to Canada. Pictures are attached of the same gun with different barrels, shorter barrel not legal in Canada and longer rifled barrel legal in Canada. My US defense gun is a smooth bore buckshot scattergun. The Canadian defense gun is a large bore .73 calibre rifle. Both are the identically same firearm with different barrels. By the way, the rifled gun would be more effective against large bears and, hopefully, never to be used.

Canadian authorities gave me no problems with my sporting firearm when I crossed the border in September this year. One of the reasons I attached the pictures is to make the point that my gun is a sporting firearm and not an aggressive looking military style weapon. I was charged $25 to register it for 60 days. I paid with my MasterCard. The border control officer told me to keep the gun out of sight inside a locked container. He specifically told me that my camper was considered a container and to keep it locked. I actually did better than that by cable locking the gun to a secure point under one of the seats. The gun came out only when we camped alone in bear country.

John D

 

[erod]

john, informative post, thanks!

 

[Buzz]

Thanks, John D. Your reply is invaluable.

I'll select another unit.

-Buzz