BLM lands

[mtn-high]

Hi all.

It seems like there are a multitude of topics that can be covered under this topic....from land use, to camping spots, to gripes and ideas...

Feel free to post your thoughts and comments...good or bad.

 

[brett13]

BLM land is my favorite to camp on, but I do wish they would restrict the ranchers more and also stop restricting recreation. It seems at the places I go year after year, there are more restrictions each year. I understand the need to protect the land, but the effort seems one-sided: more drilling and ranching, less recreation. Ought to be the other way around, IMO. Nothing like a free campsite with no one for miles and great views. I really like being far from anywhere which seems to be only really possible on BLM these days.

 

[Garymc]

BLM land is my favorite to camp on, but I do wish they would restrict the ranchers more and also stop restricting recreation. It seems at the places I go year after year, there are more restrictions each year. I understand the need to protect the land, but the effort seems one-sided: more drilling and ranching, less recreation. Ought to be the other way around, IMO. Nothing like a free campsite with no one for miles and great views. I really like being far from anywhere which seems to be only really possible on BLM these days.

As a BLM Park Ranger (not LEO Ranger) the oil/gas issues and grazing are disturbing to me as well. The new Interior Secretary will drastically slow the growth of these, but the ones grazing/drilling leases already in play will not go away.
That said, if you eat beef and like to drive and heat your home, as I do, you will incur the correlating higher prices.

As far as the greater recreational restrictions being placed on the land, it is true that more of our public lands are being more closely managed than they have been in the past. But, if you look at the rec. maps closely you'll find that the overwhelming majority of these restrictions are placed on the 'front country' areas close to population centers or are former places of abuse.
A large part of the management protocol is trying to make up for lack of funding for field staff. For instance, I take care of 1.2 million acres of land with only one other ranger. Can you imagine a rancher doing that with his land? (For an example of how underfunded we are in other areas we had no money to get tires for my work rig last fall and the moto-ranger had to sit in the office becuae he had no money to put gas in his dirtbike) We simply do not have the time to get where we need to go and do what we need to do on a daily basis and in turn the the managers try to make up for this with more rules.
I think that most folks with common sense realize that more rules do not make things easier to deal with.

So, who has questions about great campsites?

 

[brett13]

Garymc, what is a "LEO" ranger? What state do you work in?

Fav sites? Well, I'd have to kill ya if I told ya, but I have a couple dozen in my GPS that are hard to find. If I was more brave or modded my rig, there are plenty more I'd find too. That's my favorite part of BLM land- just wandering off (on an existing trail though, of course). Most of my favorites are in the SE UT area though.

 

[Garymc]

Garymc, what is a "LEO" ranger? What state do you work in?

Fav sites? Well, I'd have to kill ya if I told ya, but I have a couple dozen in my GPS that are hard to find. If I was more brave or modded my rig, there are plenty more I'd find too. That's my favorite part of BLM land- just wandering off (on an existing trail though, of course). Most of my favorites are in the SE UT area though.


Law Enforcement Ranger: The ticket happy mean guy with the gun
and fancy truck that he hates to get out of.

Park Ranger: The nice guy with a bunch of trail tools in his pack,
hates being in his truck and shows folks how to do the
right thing instead of giving them a ticket.

 

[generubin]

About beef prices

Gary, Thanks for being on the good side about BLM practices. You do know what BLM stands for? Bureau of Livestock and Mining.

About beef prices. less than 4% of the USA beef is raised in the 11 western states. Getting the cows off of our lands will not raise beef prices whatsoever and will save $100,000's in rancher subsidies that we tax payers pay out.

 

[Garymc]

Gary, Thanks for being on the good side about BLM practices. You do know what BLM stands for? Bureau of Livestock and Mining.

About beef prices. less than 4% of the USA beef is raised in the 11 western states. Getting the cows off of our lands will not raise beef prices whatsoever and will save $100,000's in rancher subsidies that we tax payers pay out.

I'm based out of Western Colorado. I will also say that I am typing these replies on my own time, on my own computer and they are my own opinions. If you disagree with them please take it up with me instead of running to my boss. Thanks.

Don't forget 'Bureau of Logging and Mining'....

Great news, now write you congressmen and get those 'slow elk' off of our lands!

 

[mtn-high]

Sorry to pop the thread and leave. I DO have a few comments...LOL.

I too, enjoy the BLM. What many see as "wasteland" I can usually find some hidden beauty in somewhere. A hidden Riparian canyon/zone...the miles of red dirt and pinion/juniper/spruce "scrub" lands... Wow...so much to see...

I also have concerns. There are areas out there that are being pock-marked by roads and drill rigs and pollution of the air and water that IS changing the face of the land you may "remember". I recently found myself on an overnight in the Aztec, NM area to Rescue 3 Goldens and as we all often do...found a BLM road...wandered of to the West...and found a flat spot on a boonie road in the scrub.

Went to bed...had one of those "urges' at about 4 AM...amd got out to do a bit of business. When I opened the door I heard a whirring/transferring of air sound coming from the East. Just about then a wave of SOME KIND OF petroleum offgassing-byproduct filled the air....and it was the exact smell I remember from a refinery 10 mioles or so from my house as a kid that you'd smell on a winter day on occasion...

When i got home I serached Google Earth...and WOW...I was shocked. The entire NW corner of NM...BLM...Indian Reservations...etc is pock marked SEVERELY...

The same thing is happening in W Co/Rifle area....

On a more pleasant topic....

I'm sure Gary will know of this place..but my favorite BLM spot in W CO is Ratlesnake Canyon. Holy smoke. Surreal. Quiet. Killer sunsets... and the 2nd largest concentration of natural arches on the planet after Arches NP.
I've been here 4 times...and each was special in it's own way...from the Summer monsoon/lightning/...to the wind gusts we endured on one night that were memorable...to the intense heat in mid-summer...to the time we went here on a "spiritual" quest. What an incredible day. Without a doubt... we definetly should have been arrested by Gary...LOL.

Haven't been for a few years now...the road used to go farther down the hill towared the arches but now ends on a ridge (we camped here in the WIND one night) There's also 2 ways in...but one crosses ranches, i believe..and there are gates so we've only went OUT that way before. the way in is not-too-bad...maybe a few branch scrapes...but if it's rained....don't go in. Dat stuff is gumbo/slick...

There's also another spot...south and west...maybe 15 miles by the crow flying.... 3-4 waterfalls...South delores creek or river..maybe? It's an abandoned BLM spot with a party-type history..obviously. Lotsa broken glass/etc when we were thewre but the place AT ONE TIME was a GEM.
Sweet falls/pools.... What's the name of this one, Gary? Is it still there/accessible?

That entire area S/SW of Grand Junction is amazing...

I vote for Rattlesnake Canyon for a rally!

mtn

 

[Garymc]

Rattlesnake is a great place. The road does continue down to the trailhead now, though it is closed seasonally for elk calving. The ridge you speak of is called Black Ridge, great place as long as there isn't lighting... If you're up for a much more adventurous hike continue another 1/2 mile or so down the road and check out Mee canyon. It is an amazing little place with a long steep hike in.
The swimming area you mentioned is called the Potholes and is the bane of my BLM existence. I spend far too much time up there babysitting idiots. The place is trashed and is not the kind of place you take your family unless you like getting into trouble. We have had a lot of meth activity going on there the last two summers, so beware... A real shame as it was, and kinda still is if you squint, spectacular.
Another little known place up that way is Pinyon Mesa. 8 to 9,000ft up, aspens, lakes and a great little campground run by two of my volunteers by the name of Virgil and Judy. RV hookups and VERY clean vault toilets. I think I'm supposed to unlock the gate up there on May 15th....
Pinyon Mesa has a lot of 'dispersed' camping as well. It's a really beautiful spot.

One more and I'll shut up.... The bookcliffs to the North of Grand Junction hide a lot of beautiful country. Exit in Fruita, stop at Hot Tomato for a great slice of pizza and drive up 21 Road and take any one of the turnoffs to find beautiful high country camping and hiking. Be aware that there is a lot of oil/gas activity up there, but you can get away from it easily enough.
Ahem, one more place, Douglas Pass. Check it out.


Sorry to pop the thread and leave. I DO have a few comments...LOL.

I too, enjoy the BLM. What many see as "wasteland" I can usually find some hidden beauty in somewhere. A hidden Riparian canyon/zone...the miles of red dirt and pinion/juniper/spruce "scrub" lands... Wow...so much to see...

I also have concerns. There are areas out there that are being pock-marked by roads and drill rigs and pollution of the air and water that IS changing the face of the land you may "remember". I recently found myself on an overnight in the Aztec, NM area to Rescue 3 Goldens and as we all often do...found a BLM road...wandered of to the West...and found a flat spot on a boonie road in the scrub.

Went to bed...had one of those "urges' at about 4 AM...amd got out to do a bit of business. When I opened the door I heard a whirring/transferring of air sound coming from the East. Just about then a wave of SOME KIND OF petroleum offgassing-byproduct filled the air....and it was the exact smell I remember from a refinery 10 mioles or so from my house as a kid that you'd smell on a winter day on occasion...

When i got home I serached Google Earth...and WOW...I was shocked. The entire NW corner of NM...BLM...Indian Reservations...etc is pock marked SEVERELY...

The same thing is happening in W Co/Rifle area....

On a more pleasant topic....

I'm sure Gary will know of this place..but my favorite BLM spot in W CO is Ratlesnake Canyon. Holy smoke. Surreal. Quiet. Killer sunsets... and the 2nd largest concentration of natural arches on the planet after Arches NP.
I've been here 4 times...and each was special in it's own way...from the Summer monsoon/lightning/...to the wind gusts we endured on one night that were memorable...to the intense heat in mid-summer...to the time we went here on a "spiritual" quest. What an incredible day. Without a doubt... we definetly should have been arrested by Gary...LOL.

Haven't been for a few years now...the road used to go farther down the hill towared the arches but now ends on a ridge (we camped here in the WIND one night) There's also 2 ways in...but one crosses ranches, i believe..and there are gates so we've only went OUT that way before. the way in is not-too-bad...maybe a few branch scrapes...but if it's rained....don't go in. Dat stuff is gumbo/slick...

There's also another spot...south and west...maybe 15 miles by the crow flying.... 3-4 waterfalls...South delores creek or river..maybe? It's an abandoned BLM spot with a party-type history..obviously. Lotsa broken glass/etc when we were thewre but the place AT ONE TIME was a GEM.
Sweet falls/pools.... What's the name of this one, Gary? Is it still there/accessible?

That entire area S/SW of Grand Junction is amazing...

I vote for Rattlesnake Canyon for a rally!

mtn

 

[EdoHart]

My thoughts...

Our public lands supposedly belong to all of us, campers, hikers, motorcycle riders, four wheelers, oil, mining and power companies, etcetera, etcetera. We all have an interest and it's a difficult job to balance everyone's interests. Do I have the right to keep things the way I want, or does the other guy have the right to change things to the way he wants?

If some entity is gaining an advantage for the use of our public lands, they should pay the rest of us for that advantage. By that measure, anyone who wishes to develop a road, mine, oil well, etcetera, should pay the rest of us for the said road, mine oil well, etcetera. The corollary is that anyone who doesn't wants said road, mine, oil well, etcetera, should pay those who do want it. A nice little dichotomy exists as the result of this logic.

I suspect that commercial interest's pay for the ability to exploit our natural resources on public lands. Whether they pay a fair price is certainly debatable. To date, I have not paid any fee so that I may access BLM managed lands. I sometimes wonder if I could have driven to (or even walked or bicycled to) some of the great sites I have found on land "owned" by the BLM.

Going to one of my favorite sites, only to find a commercial development nearby, is akin to going back to my old neighborhood and seeing a house built on that empty lot we used to have so much fun playing on; I hate to see the things I cherish change or go away. However, as long as I can drive home, turn on my electric lights, get water out of my tap, take food out of my refrigerator and cook it on my stove, I appreciate the need to exploit our natural resources. The fact that some of those natural resources may come from the places I used to play in is regrettable, but unavoidable.

I'm not willing to give it all away to development. However, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say "I've got mine, find yours somewhere else." Balancing the use of our public lands between what I want and what everyone else wants is not easy.

 

[brett13]

Well put, Edohart

 

[Tomas Tierra]

Well said Edo!

 

[DirtyDog]

I suspect that commercial interest's pay for the ability to exploit our natural resources on public lands. Whether they pay a fair price is certainly debatable. To date, I have not paid any fee so that I may access BLM managed lands. I sometimes wonder if I could have driven to (or even walked or bicycled to) some of the great sites I have found on land "owned" by the BLM.


I'm going to agree with most of what you said Ed. However, these drilling companies are known to make a BFM (big farkin mess) at a lot of these sites and not adequately clean them up. If they need to drill fine, but do it with respect for the land.

 

[EdoHart]

I totally agree with you DD.

Everyone should respect the land. I've seen individuals and other commercial interests make a mess, but the BFM that can occur as the result of irresponsible drilling is the worst.

 

[mtn-high]

I'll withhold further environmental comment beyond saying that I am liberal and think we should protect our Public Lands from ANY >>short-sighted

 

[Tomas Tierra]

STUNNING pics!!

 

[chnlisle]

Its a long thirsty walk but worth it. Great pix

 

[brett13]

Mtn- cool pics. I'm going.

So, I noticed in the third pic of your post #15, that the shadow of the arch has a hole with light coming through. I was staring at this, trying to figure out where an arch had a hole in it! Then I scrolled down to the next (4th) pic where you can clearly see the window in the surface of the arch! Trippy man, like a Dali painting or something.

 

[mtn-high]

Heya Brett

It's one of those places that makes the saying ""Tis a privilege to live in Colorado" ring ever-so-true. I wanna spend at least a few days here the next time I venture in.

That's a buddy of mine from Boston standing near the arch. Walking out on them is a real mind-blower. Freaked me out...for sure.

The trail winds along the top of the outcrop where you can peer over the edge in many places...then it drops around the side of the outcrop and you walk an equal distance looking up at them. There are quite a few Desert Bighorn sheep..deer..elk/etc here. In fact, I came face to face with a sheep on the trail on one of our adventures! Before *I* could even process WTF was going on...he had lept down and across the ravine a good 75 ft and was looking at me from the other side.

definitely a fun and highly memorable place to go

mtn