Building a camper

[pods8]

Marty,

Pods8 describes similar, but I think COG ahead of the rear axle is better.


The CG issue is the hitch but I think it would be better to not have to disturb the bed/dinette while going in and out of the camper.

 

[ScottBailey]

The CG issue is the hitch but I think it would be better to not have to disturb the bed/dinette while going in and out of the camper.

Yeah, I concur. But for the Toyota and 1/2 ton guys, that much weight in the rear is an issue... Marty is talking about a big time investment for prototyping, he probably needs to look at building a camper for 80% of his customers.

Furthermore, I'd move to an 8' camper on my 6.75' bed, even w/ a 1 ton I don't really want my COG that far back...

So, regardless it's a compromise...

 

[EdoHart]

I'm just brain storming. Give it a thought, then shoot me down.

I bought my FWC used, so I have what I can afford, for now.

Given the truck manufacturers predilection toward larger cab sizes, a queen size bed (80" x 60") over the cab would probably look good. I can see that being a difficult engineering problem given the dynamic loading a newly wed couple might impart on such a bed.

A built in, adjustable air dam on the front of the camper; a wedge that could be adjusted up or down in, say 1/2 inch increments and tilted within about 15 degrees to fit the shape of the truck (when the top is lowered) and thus reduce air drag.

 

[masterplumber]

Ok, this is completely out of the box but waht about a shell model with a double door that would give a clear opening of 49'' on the full size models - the inside front to back floor space would have to be 97'' on a long bed model. This would allow a guy to use the camper for work during the week & then throw in some modular boxxes on Friday afternoon & go camping. Maybe have an option for some fold down benches that are 6'6'' long mounted toward the front - thay can be used as a dinette during the day & as narrow twin beds at night.

The other thing that seems to need work on both the ATC & the FWC is the mounting system - not saying their bad - they just don't cut it if a guy really uses the truck on the trails as either the frames crack or the turn buckles come loose or both. I know the engineering would be tough but what about an optional subframe that in effect makes a 3 point mounting system to isolate the camper from the twists of the truck bed.

Doug

 

[cabezon23]

Multi use modules

The first mod I did on my camper was taking the table out and installing slide out tables into the kitchen cabinet.

The second mod was changing the sofa / bed setup. The original ATC setup takes up too much space when used as a bed. Now it is a little higher and closer to the side window, leaving a much wider space to the kitchen cabinet.

The next mod I'm working on is a system that will allow me to take the sofa out of the camper and attach it to the side of it. Then I want to use the slide out portion of the cab over bed and use it as a table. This way I would have a comfortable seating solution outside under the awning without increasing the weight or volume.

Another mod I'd like to see is an additional crib / bed for smaller children. On my previous camper I had this set up as a folding bed on top of the fridge. During the day it was kept on top of the cab over bed, at night it was set up over the fridge / sink.

A power outlet for 12v / 110V under the awning would be nice

The air dam for the space between cab and hangover was mentioned before.

A more aerodynamic design to reduce wind resistance and increase mileage would be appreciated.

 

[John D]

Gentlemen (and there is a lady or two out there), can any of us imagine a lead engineer at General Motors seriously engaging customers about how GM could improve its cars and trucks? It is a privilege to witness a company making an honest effort to provide service to enthusiastic customers interested in the results. We are all doing something here that will bare fruit and hopefully make Marty’s company very successful.

There are many excellent ideas in this thread. Some are ingenious. I have seen pictures of work done on individuals' campers by members of the forum which can only be described properly as fine art. I wish I could have a camper made with fine woodwork inside, just because it is so pretty. In reality, this is not practical. After all, it is just a camper.

Let me put in my two cents, which is just my opinion and everyone else’s opinion is just as valid as mine. About the couch; the complaint or suggestion about the couch is oft repeated. Some say that FWC has a better solution with its more mechanical couch. I disagree. The simplicity of a piece of padded plywood is preferred. It weighs less, it works, and it will not break. I hope ATC will resist the temptation to resolve a problem where there is none, or at least continue to offer the simpler arrangement as standard. It is good that we have two lightweight camper builders, one catering to those wanting more luxuries and one dedicated to the concept of simplicity. In fact, I wish Marty would make a special model, the "HDT", after Henry David Thoreau. It would have a strong small following. _John D

 

[pods8]

Then I want to use the slide out portion of the cab over bed and use it as a table.


Not sure if you've bothered to take the slide out in/out of the camper but its not the easiest thing to maneuver the rotation to get it out the door on a regular basis type thing, I can see someone being rushed or such over time potentially tearing the sideliner. Perhaps you have it down already but I figured I'd point it out in case you hadn't noted that yet.

 

[cabezon23]

cut out table

Not sure if you've bothered to take the slide out in/out of the camper but its not the easiest thing to maneuver the rotation to get it out the door on a regular basis type thing, I can see someone being rushed or such over time potentially tearing the sideliner. Perhaps you have it down already but I figured I'd point it out in case you hadn't noted that yet.

I also thought about this, the whole slide out might be too big to take out, and I don't really need such a big table. That's why I thought of cutting some portions out of the slide out. Using a slanted cut would allow me to drop the cutouts back in. The table doesn't have to be bigger than 2 x 4 ft, that should be sufficient for 2 adults and 2 kids.

 

[pods8]

I also thought about this, the whole slide out might be too big to take out, and I don't really need such a big table. That's why I thought of cutting some portions out of the slide out. Using a slanted cut would allow me to drop the cutouts back in. The table doesn't have to be bigger than 2 x 4 ft, that should be sufficient for 2 adults and 2 kids.

I'd be worried about loosing the rigidity of the slide doing that. The front brace does most of the work but the plywood does some as well. Good luck and use some test pieces first.

 

[cabezon23]

C & B approach

I'd be worried about loosing the rigidity of the slide doing that. The front brace does most of the work but the plywood does some as well. Good luck and use some test pieces first.

Hm, I usually go for the crash and burn approach. Some people learn through reading or listening, I learn through pain

 

[Sam]

A new lift system: An ingenious mechanical advantage system or replace the laminated wood panels with stamped aluminum panels for longevity.

Smooth siding: Although it is simply for aesthetics it would give the camper a more modern look. I know the metal siding is to allow flex & the smooth siding is not supposed to flex, but I have a hard time buying that. You can't tell me a 40' toy hauler driving through the desert does not flex.

Kudos to ATC for this approach (listen to the customer) though I can't help but be reminded of an episode of the Simpsons when Homer is asked to design The Car of The Future. Homer told the engineers "I wan't a horn here, & here, & here, & here, you can never find a horn when your mad" good luck Marty listening to all us "Homers"

 

[Brewery Meister]

My two cents...

First, I agree... thanks Marty for asking the question..

I've had my camper for a few years now and one of the things that I've realized is that we all use our campers differently. No kidding, right?

My first camper was a LOADED Grandby. Great camper, didn't use all of the stuff much because I live outside when I camp.

Next camper was a Panther Shell that you guys did a great job of modifying for me.

Now for my two cents...
1) I like the narrower camper. Especially when going through narrow trails and general driving. I got so used to four-wheeling with my old Landcruiser that having a vehicle that only extended as far out as my mirrors is perfect. "Vehicles are closer than they appear...) Thanks for making mine narrow.
2) Wired for solar... thanks for doing that too.
3) Extra aluminum on the back and sides for attaching things to. Thanks for doing that one on my rig.
4) .... the lower bunk. That is one of my pet peeves. I'm modifying my bed now. I agree with one of the other posts recommending a bed that goes across the entire lower part of the camper. I've got a couple of ideas about how I'm going to do it I just haven't made a final decision.

Now... that being said, these are great campers and an excellent starting point that many people are extremely happy with out of the shop. Something else that is apparent from reading many of the threads on WTW is that many of us are born tinkerers or WTB born tinkerers and like messing around with the camper you guys make.

Marty, Jeff and Ben... you guys have a great camper the biggest drawback that I see is a significant lack of marketing. FWC has been in the business for a long time and has a huge following, as well they should.

You guys understand the builds of both campers so well that the changes you've made, while significant to you are not always immediately noticeable to the general buyer. You need something to make you stand out. Whether that is to make a Green Camper... or something else that will make a strong distinction between the two products you need to offer a significant difference while still maintaining the basic simplicity and usefulness of this camper style...

I guess that was more than two cents..... take it for what it's worth

 

[ScottBailey]

AK c/o FD

Marty,

After a bit more thought, I believe a floor plan similar to the Alaskan 8' C/O dinette is it. Here's a link. This is what Pods8 describes in post 6, and I've had a change of heart on the CG.

Key changes:

• rear galley
• front dinette
• Greater extension of cab over -- shoot for 60"
• enclosed toilet area/wardrobe/storage
• Maybe use a bladder tank for water under the dinette step up?

If you build this, I can maybe talk the wife into a new one in 2010... If not, I'll try to build it myself.

 

[John D]

I have gleaned from the posts in this thread what I think are the best suggestions and added a couple of my own, as follows;

1) Modularity – can this actually be done while keeping weight down. If so, it fits with Masterplumbers idea of a working dudes dual use camper.
2) Masterplumber has excellent ideas.
3) 2 burner stove (rather than 1, 3, or 4)
4) An optional charcoal bricket yacht stove for heating and winter camping to go with a yacht quality interior. A winter camping unit.
5) Stock reinforced mounting points for external accessories
6) Stock wiring for Fantastic Fan and solar collectors.
7) Rope tie downs rather than turn buckles, including centering blocks of some kind.

-John D

 

[BSS]

Marty-

My first pick up camper was a 1988 Skamper 060s. I got rid of that run down heavy old monster a decade ago, but everytime I think about that camper the one thing I still REALLY miss was the under-bed storage. There was enough room for two people to hold a week's worth of clothes and then some. Obviously this might not be possible with an extended bed model, but man it would be GOLD if you could incorporate something like this in the future.

 

[Jack]

Ditch the damn pedestal table!

We like our rather simple solution very much.
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8753
and you are welcome to the details.

If a dinette had been an option, though, we would most likely have gotten it.

 

[Rob in MT]

Using the pics on this website as an example,

http://homepage.mac.com/rasti/PhotoAlbum3.html

I would move the galley forward (refer to the very front), putting the dinette at the back of the truck. I would attach the dinette table to the galley counter doing double duty as an extension of the galley counter, or to lower and swing out as a dinette table. The porta potti would sit under the galley side dinette seat. Seat back cushions would be removable triangles.

The materials used for the dinette in this model are very attractive and look to be lightweight.

 

[pods8]

I would move the galley forward (refer to the very front), putting the dinette at the back of the truck. I would attach the dinette table to the galley counter doing double duty as an extension of the galley counter, or to lower and swing out as a dinette table.

See I don't see this working that great (in my head at least) because when the table is in place you can't get back into the galley without moving it and it would block your path in/out of the camper. Sounds like headaches that are avoided with the dinette up front.

 

[ScottBailey]

Sounds like headaches that are avoided with the dinette up front.

Pods,

It's up to you to build this prototype. I know you can do it... I'd do it, but I need someone to grant me the cash for tools, materials, etc...

 

[pods8]

Pods,

It's up to you to build this prototype. I know you can do it... I'd do it, but I need someone to grant me the cash for tools, materials, etc...


If the camper I bought didn't have the propane box 8" away from the front wall you could have considered it done. Unfortunately I'd be doing some decently major rework to accomplish something like this (rip out the fridge to put the propane box there, locate an engle fridge under a seat or on the opposite side of the camper, etc). Ideally if one was to pursue this it would probably be best to get a shell with some framework openings to your specifications. Definately would be fun but I've got my fingers in this camper, a house remodel, and trying to get in the outdoors as much as possible... I'm going to shoot for making up my "do it all couch" design with the current rig, I'm currently trying to wrap up my cabinet rework (and then I have a load of new doors for the house that need to be stained/poly coated) but will eventually get to it.

Edit: However if someone actually wanted to pursue something like this and wanted help designing and such I'd pitch in as time allowed. I don't do ACAD on a daily basis but can bully my way through it.