Ford F250 Death Wobble

[BigRanchInSky]

I should have posted this nearer to Halloween, it's that scary...

I encountered the Ford F250 Death Wobble phenomenon on the highway this past fall. We have a 2019 Hawk on our crew cab F250 and I was doing about 70-72.

It was on a stretch of southbound highway in Lehi, Utah that was pretty new, but it has these strange indentations on the roadway that are evenly spaced. They look like small, engraved rough patches the are small, 5" x 24" is my estimate, spaced two per lane every 20 feet. I remember that a year earlier going in the northbound lanes in the exact same area that I also experienced a pretty big wobble, but I was not going as fast, AND I was able to get over into a right hand lane/offramp almost immediately.

I only use the truck to camp with camper on it, it stays in storage otherwise, so it only has 22K miles on it, bought it brand new in 2019. I had never heard of this until I started hunting around to read about this aspect of the Ford F-series.

It starts with a a vibration and proceeded to get to a mammoth sized oscillation that was pretty violent. I had to do an emergency slow-down into the lefthand shoulder lane (I obviously no other choice in busy traffic). We had to come to a complete stop to end it. It was LOUD. It shook HARD.

Needless to say me wife was freaked out, as was I, and are two dogs were also mortified. I quickly found my way back into traffic and we got off and checked the camper connections, all were in perfect shape. So we went on camping, but I was/am scared to go over 70.

I need to check the mount holes to make sure there are no sheared rips, bulges or deformations, but the original installation included giant aluminum plates under the bed attachement zones, so they wouldn't be able to go back into place if they were sheared thru.

Anyway, I was really stoked about the F250, but now I'm thinking that I'd like to with to a get chevy. I'm very happy to be alive and do not want to ever have that happen again.

Ideas, thoughts and comments appreciated.

 

[Jon R]

I suspect your mounts will be fine but a full inspection is wise. The experience of two of my neighbors with their fairly new F350s and what I have read about this caused me to rule out buying the Ford HD truck. Please report your event to NHTSA. Eventually when enough safety related events are reported they react.

 

[heinphoto]

This happened to a good friend of ours with a 2020 F350 and a flatbed Hawk camper and it does sound terrifying. They took it to the dealer afterwards and they replaced some front end parts. They haven't had a re-occurance yet, but it hasn't been long. We also have a 2020 F350 (but gas instead of the diesel engine), so we are trying to keep an eye on possible fixes or things you might do proactively to prevent it. If you go to the 2017+ SuperDuty section of the "Ford Truck Enthusiasts" site and search "Death Wobble" you will find a lot of discussions on this topic. Lots of speculation about the causes - everything from worn or loose front end components, to tire inflation, alignment, shocks, etc., but unfortunately, it doesn't sound like there is a "magic bullet" to fix or prevent it.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum279/

I second the suggestion to file a complaiint with the NHTSA.

 

[Vic Harder]

Anyway, I was really stoked about the F250, but now I'm thinking that I'd like to with to a get chevy. I'm very happy to be alive and do not want to ever have that happen again.

Ideas, thoughts and comments appreciated.

Yup, I avoided Fords for this reason too. Here are some more thoughts:
What You Should Know About the Ford Super Duty Death Wobble (motorbiscuit.com)
The Ford Super Duty "Death Wobble" - TheLemonFirm.com
Ford now offering repair for the so-called ‘death wobble’ – WSOC TV

And possible solutions
How To Stop Ford Super Duty Death Wobble FOREVER - YouTube

Has the truck been lifted at all? I understand that may reduce the caster angle, and that has been discussed as a possible problem, even with stock trucks, and that increasing caster can help.

I hope this helps.

 

[Jon R]

From what I’ve read the root cause is insufficient caster in the basic design and the setup specifications. A properly configured front end doesn’t go unstable just because steering joints develop some play. Some people have chosen to increase the caster outside of the Ford spec range, but the adjustment capability is limited.

 

[Machinebuilder]

Death wobble is something any solid axle truck can develop.

I have read many of the threads on FTE and know of many in the jeep world that have delt with it.

On FTE a common theme is owners put a "Leveling kit" on the truck. this leads to the inadequate castor.

Castor is the backward lean of the steering pivot, the less castor the quicker the steering more castor the slower the steering and more stable.

I found this with Google, it seems better than much of what is on the internet

https://oneupoffroad.com/death-wobble/

https://oneupoffroad.com/alignment-specifications/

 

[bajaphile]

Yep, I was going to say you may want to add a few degrees of caster to the front axle.

I would be shocked if the ball joints, tie rod ends or anything else in the steering would be worn out that quickly.

is there any lift on the truck?

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

I believe Machinebuilder is spot on. I chased this issue in my ‘96 1/2-ton Dodge…yes, solid axles were found in several generations of this sized vehicle. And yes, it began when I tried to give the truck a minor lift and larger tires and wheels. I tried longer control arms, beefier track bar, rebuilt steering box, etc. It’s the reason I’ve come to the conclusion that the millions of dollars automakers spend on research and engineering shouldn’t be changed, within reason. I do run slightly larger tires on my current Chevy.

You don’t mention whether the truck is lifted but I agree that all solid axle front ends have the potential for death wobble, especially at speed. Good luck in your search for a fix. I was equally upset as you when I first experienced the wobble!

 

[BigRanchInSky]

Thank you, all these are great responses and I'll need to go through them all. Sincerely, Thank you all!

edit: No, my F250 is 100% stock, no lifts or other modifications.
edit: reported to NHTSA.
edit: no air bags, no spring lifts

 

[pvstoy]

Just throwing out a thought.?.. do you have air bags or spring lift in the rear?

I ask because could this change the weight distribution on the front axle? Front nose up could change angles and at 70 mph hit the right bump to start osalation.

 

[DarinH]

I think Ford fixed the death wobble issue sometime in the ‘20 model year (I’m speculating), although I don’t think they ever did a recall on it. I have a ‘21 Superduty Tremor with a Grandby and have never had a problem with it, and have gone at least 85 mph, both empty and with the camper on. There are several youtube videos that address the issue and give a fix. I think it’s a fairly simple fix, although it’s a shame Ford doesn’t fix it through a recall. It’s probably worth checking with your dealer on to see if they’ve done something for it.

 

[Beach]

My stock F250/Hawk got the DW summer of 2021 while on vacation with 63k on the odometer, had a shop replace the track bar. I didn't experience any more DW but front end never felt like it was right, still had a lot of feed backk/shimmy in the steering on rough roads. This fall I took it to a local shop I know that does excellent work to have it checked out(66k on the odometer). They replaced all tie rod ends, pitman arm and installed a heavier track bar. They also recommended a dual ram stabilizer but I decided to stay with the HD bilstien single since it only has 10k miles on it. Steering now has zero play and just the tiniest amout of feedback on rough roads now, truck drives great, huge difference. Owner told me if there is just a 1/4" of total play in the front end you'll get the DW

 

[Ouroboros]

I have owned a 1994,1999, 2001, 2006, 2016 and now a 2020, all 4X4 Diesels and have never experienced or even heard of anyone personally experiencing the death wobble. I believe it is more of an anomaly related the vehicle becoming unsettled when the weight is evenly distributed front to rear. Jeep Jk's forums also talk about this issue.

 

[ri-f]

Here's another technical. esoteric thread from the Jeep TJ forum:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/death-wobble-woes.66624/

This is a new thread and might be interesting for you to follow to see how it eventually resolves. It touches on toe-in, caster, track bars, worn tires, etc.

 

[BigRanchInSky]

Thank You all!

Update: I found the letter form Ford advising me about a warranty extension for "Steering Linkage Damper" to 7 years/100K miles. So I called the dealer in town I purchased it from to have them look at it. Ford Letter (Customer Satisfaction Program 20NN04) says a redesigned damper is available (part #: KC3Z-3E651-B, E or G(?)). It goes in Nov. 23.

I hope they replace this part, gonna be disappointed if not. I saw on YT about how to see if there is play. Start it up, press on brake and really crank the steering wheel back and forth—that should reveal any looseness (but will I be able to detect it?)*

They replaced all tie rod ends, pitman arm and installed a heavier track bar. They also recommended a dual ram stabilizer but I decided to stay with the HD bilstien single since it only has 10k miles on it. Steering now has zero play and just the tiniest amout of feedback on rough roads now, truck drives great, huge difference. Owner told me if there is just a 1/4" of total play in the front end you'll get the DW

I might look into solutions such as this, but I've got zero experience, so I'm leery of just bouncing in and asking for a slew of new parts. More research and discussions with my more experienced buddies needed.

One thing that might not be helping: old tires. I've got original OEM Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure With Kevlar, which are probably pretty good tires, and mine only have 22K miles on them, but they are 4.6 years old at this point and look like hell from being in the sun a bunch. So I'm looking at Costco for some BFGoodrich AT KO2s (only$1220!).


*I'm anxious to get it out of storage this next Monday and do some tests on the front end now that I've read and watch a bunch of YT videos explaining what this is and how to hopefully see it. It goes to the deal a few days later. Going to proceed methodically if at all possible.

 

[Openroad]

I once worked for Ford on the assembly line and made pick-ups. The issue isn’t Ford specific but solid front axles as has already has been mentioned. All vehicles with solid axles run into this problem. I would have the dealer check the castor setting on the truck. Caster settings can be put off because of rather simple events that bend control arms or other components of the front end. It only takes one large rock or tree branch hit hard enough to do the damage.

Another thing to check is weight. Do you have any rear end squat? In other words, is the rear of the truck noticeably lower than the front? What is the payload capacity of your truck? Have you had a chance to put your truck (fully loaded with fuel, water and passengers) on a weight scale? You want to make sure you don’t exceed the payload capacity of the truck. Check the yellow tag inside the driver’s door frame. It will tell you the maximum GVWR. The truck weight on the scale should not exceed the GVWR listed on the tag.

If the geometry of the truck is off too much (because of weight issues) you may have a condition that is more prone to front end related issues. When I had my camper on my F150 (even with air bags) I had a light front end that caused me control problems. I ended up getting a 7.3L gasoline powered F350 which has not given me any troubles. This truck is rock solid on the road.

Unfortunately, F250s do not always have much greater payloads than ½ ton pick-ups. Without getting into the weeds, this is because the options added to a basic truck quickly tend to eat up payload capacity and worse yet, a diesel engine will gobble up almost 800lbs of payload capacity over a gas engine. I have seen F250s with diesel engines that have lighter payload capacities than ½ ton pick-ups.

Checking the weight is a very low-cost thing that can be done and may be informative if nothing else.

 

[Gumbus]

Thank you, all these are great responses and I'll need to go through them all. Sincerely, Thank you all!

edit: No, my F250 is 100% stock, no lifts or other modifications.
edit: reported to NHTSA.
edit: no air bags, no spring lifts

Hi BigRanchinSky, I live just up the road from you and have the EXACT same truck as you, 2019 use only for my FWC with 24,000 miles on it with no lift and OEM tires (carefully balanced and aligned). Just started to get the hint of Death wobble.

 

[fish more]

My F250 4x4 SC had a couple of issues with DW. I changed out the shocks and steering damper with Bilstein 5100 units. Problem corrected., the Ford shocks were pretty weak compaired to the Bilsteins.

 

[ramblinChet]

Oh gosh, the horrible death wobble. Myself and others have chased this for decades and I can share some of what I have learned over the years. It's a simple issue although it appears quite complex. Let me begin by stating this is an inherent issue with solid front axles and not a manufacturers defect.

Let's break the issue down into two primary sources: tires and front steering linkage. Keep in mind that minor issues in each of these areas may combine to result in steering wobble.

Tires - tires are not normally the primary cause although they should be reviewed. When adding larger tires this should definitely be looked at closely since larger tires create significantly greater radial forces and if those forces are out of balance, problems begin. In many cases, dynamic road balancing is usually sufficient. This is where a road force is applied and balancing weights are installed on the inside and outside of the rim. In some extreme cases, I have heard of guys taking brand new tires to have them "shaved" so they are perfectly round.

Front steering linkage - this is where is becomes quite confusing. Spotting a bad track bar or tie-rod end is not too difficult but remember how I stated above that at times small problems with tires and steering linkage combine to excite the system? Now we must consider the entire system to include track bar, track bar mounts, ball joints, and tie-rod ends. Even control arm bushings, wheel bearings, and alignment can contribute and cause steering wobble.

Think of each component as a small spring that if tight, vibrates at a very high and discreet frequency. With all of these tiny forces at different frequencies we don't have any issues. But as these components wear, or become misaligned due to modification (suspension lift), now these individual frequencies become lower, and lower, and may overlap. And when happen when two or more components in a system vibrate at the same frequency? They may cancel each other out or they may excite the other and begin to resonate. Steering wobble is the mechanical system resonating and it can originate from one or multiple sources.

I have been lifting and modifying mostly Jeeps since the early 90s and have had to deal with steering wobble several times. Usually a lift and larger tires opened the door. Guys will play around with front axle alignment, most often caster and sometimes even toe. Of they may install super heavy duty steering dampers, but those are not really curing the root cause, they are masking it so an acceptable degree.

When shops begin working down the list and replacing components they are not trying to steal your money - it is a process of elimination. And again, the origin may be one component with significant wear or misalignment, or it may be a combination of multiple components which all "appear" to be acceptable, but in combination, open the door for the dreaded death wobble. I am not sure if I have explained this well but I do hope some of this information is helpful.

 

[Beach]

You did quite well in your explanation.