FWC Hawk on '07 Tundra: best mods for stability and offroad?

[rossandwendy]

Hi all,

New forum member here and have really enjoyed browsing the posts as it helped me greatly in my decision-making process, so thanks to everyone for contributing very useful info!

Just took delivery of my 2007 Tundra 4WD DoubleCab 5.7L SR5 TRD and last week placed a Hawk order with Stan (great guy!). I want to get the ToyTec lift kit that maintains the Toyota warranty (either the 3" or 2.5" front and the 1.5" rear which includes an extra leaf spring, or I can go with no spring and just the 1" block on the rear) along with BFG 305/65R-18 load E tires. What would you recommend to add to this to help stabilize the camper load and further level the truck from the sag of the loaded Hawk and yet not interfere with moderate offroad excursions? I'm wondering about the Ride-Rite airbags, or the Hellwig antisway bar, and hope the Bilsteins that came with the TRD package will be fine.

A related question - where have you had good results getting these items installed? (Les Schwab, Toyota dealer, etc.)

Cheers,

Ross
Seattle, WA

 

[erod]

first off, congrats on the new rig and the camper...sounds like an awesome set up...can't wait to see pics! as for suspension...that issue has been touched on here (WTW) and elsewhere to death so i will spare the details of reitterating what has already been said, spend a little time searching and you'll come up with a ton of info. one thing i have experienced is add-a-leafs have never worked for me...not enough lift when loaded for the money...i have had blocks as well...kind of impartial on those. don't really seem like the do anything performance wise but "lift" things up for bigger tires, which it sounds like you want to do...ride rite air bags, IMO, are the way to go! adjustable, functional and relatively inexpensive.

toyota is a good place to have things done since they'll gaurantee there work but they are really expensive (at least where i am at cause there is only one dealer!). i had mine put on at an american care care center, got the bags and install for like $300-325. it was well worth it...couple thoughts...sure you'll get lots more! cheers!

 

[rossandwendy]

Hi Erod, thanks for your thoughts. Yes I really do want that slight lift and larger BFG AT/KO tires so am pretty set on that, and I did browse through the archived threads and read great things about the Ride-Rite bags and some good comments about the Hellwig bar. I guess what I am really wondering is if the airbags would be enough by themselves, or if the Hellwig bar should be combined with the bags for even better stability, but am concerned about losing offroad articulation as I thought it would be reduced by the antisway bar...

I will definitely post pics when I get the Hawk in late November!

Cheers,
Ross

 

[Sam]

I'll agree that the air bags are the best way to go, but you might want to call Firestone and ask about mounting the bags with a lift. Also the air bags may inhibit your articulation?

In reality (depending on what options you got on the FWC) you could put your lift on and that's all, the ride would be pretty good without any other mods.

 

[rossandwendy]

I'll agree that the air bags are the best way to go, but you might want to call Firestone and ask about mounting the bags with a lift. Also the air bags may inhibit your articulation?

In reality (depending on what options you got on the FWC) you could put your lift on and that's all, the ride would be pretty good without any other mods.
Thanks Sam, that's a good idea to check w/Firestone about the airbags compatibility with the slight ToyTec lift. I do wonder as you suggest if I may be fine with no bags and just the additional leaf spring with the lift, but the Hawk is loaded with most options so not sure how the weight is going to sit on the Tundra. With the airbags I like the idea of being able to level the truck from the inevitable rear end sag with loaded camper.

Cheers,
Ross

 

[erod]

ross, few things, i have the ride rite with a lift, works great, pretty sure as long as the lift is reasonable (2-3") i don't think you need to worry (always good to check though) i actually started with the fab tech add-a-leaf in the rear (2.5" coil overs in front), didn't really do anything and cost like $200 (?). still sagged when loaded...and i didn't even have a camper (topper with home made sleeping platform). then i went with the OME (old man emu) 7 leaf packs. wow, what a difference, got the lift i wanted...unloaded. still sagged with the topper (had now moved on to a heavier wildernest @ 350lbs (?)). so i stepped it up one more level and got the air bags...done! the adjustability is awesome! articulation can also be accounted for using a hose that connects the rear air intakes so air can travel between bags...not sure where the thread is but send oly a pm (member here), he made one of these and has some nice pics to show how it works.

i was really into bigger tires but stayed with the 265/75/R16 and didn't need to adjust my gearing or lose significant mpg's. i am not at all familiar with the new tundra's. they look sick and i am sure are built...tacoma's generally have weak leafs in back and most everyone i know replaces the leaf packs completely. i actually had a conversation with a guy out here the other day who swears by body lifts, not huge but enough to help with bigger tires. he had a solid axle set up with super beefy leaf springs all around but coupled that with a 1.5-2" body lift and 5.29 (?) gears an killed it with a 22RE and a 1000lb plus camper on the back. no land speed records however . i have gotten a lot of advice form people here and else ware and am just trying to contribute back when i have the opportunities.

in reality, may you want to do nothing or start with just the air bags...get the camper and go from there...

ross, just snapped a few photos of the air bags/leaf spring set up...personally i think its overkill but may give you an idea of what your in for...OME suggests these springs give a 2-2.5" lift. when unloaded, the truck definately sits higher in the back (see pic), i like the look of the truck a bit higher in the back, but this is also at @ 22 psi, could bring it down a bit to your tastes...

 

[DLN]

Welcome aboard folks. I would also recommend adding air bags and see how the whole rig feels. I started with the additional leaf and re-arched springs which worked but didn't provide enough stability. Then added heavier shocks which settled the bouncing down, but the air bags made all the difference in the ride, took out all the sag, provided some lift, and settled all the side to side movement. Good Luck.

 

[pvstoy]

Welcome aboard folks. I would also recommend adding air bags and see how the whole rig feels. I started with the additional leaf and re-arched springs which worked but didn't provide enough stability. Then added heavier shocks which settled the bouncing down, but the air bags made all the difference in the ride, took out all the sag, provided some lift, and settled all the side to side movement. Good Luck.

Good advice........

Ross Welcome to the forum.

After you load up the camper and fill it up take measurements on how much it sags from before putting the camper on, you can level the load with air bags.

I went through the re-arched springs and adding leafs one above and one below the load spring. All that was fine because the camper stays on the truck year around. If it did not then I would do the air bags

Now I have custom National Springs all the way around on my 1983 Toyota. The 1.5 inch lift is the lowest they could go. There are many leafs in the pack so the ride is smoother. I’m not a fan of lifting. If you do lift then your footprint width should get wider to offset the height. Especially if you plan to do some wheeling off-road with side slopes with a camper on. I want that center of gravity low as possible

I have a rear sway bar with disconnects along with the front and disconnects. This really helps to allow the body level out and the suspension to contour to the ground.

I don’t like rear blocks. This allows the rear axle to rotate when you accelerate and in return places a lot of warpage on the springs and u-joints.

Body lifts are fine but not too high. A good way to do it is to weld the spacer to the frame and then bolt the body/bed through it all. Remember with the camper you are raising the center of gravity.

With air bags and a lot of suspension travel you might want to check if the bag would fall out.

 

[rossandwendy]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and great detailed info! I am digesting everything you are sharing and it will help me make a better decision next month when I pick up the camper.

Cheers!
Ross

 

[Old & In the Way]

I plan on going to my local lumber yard and having them put a skid containing a dozen 80# bags of Quikrete concrete mix (12 x 80# = 960#) in my truck just to see how much the back drops.

I am sure Sean (trailrider71) will know the dry weight of your unit.. just add 200-300# for water/food/etc and then you can use the right amount of 80# bags to see about what your actual drop will be.

Mike

 

[erod]

good info guys...

 

[jarnis]

Are you considering other offroad mods besides suspension & tires? Locking diff/s? Skid plates? Recovery equip.? What's available on the new Tundras?

 

[brett13]

Hi all,Just took delivery of my 2007 Tundra 4WD DoubleCab 5.7L SR5 TRD

Welcome Ross. I have the same rig with a Bobcat on it. Here is what I know:
1. Without any extra support, I experienced less than 3" of sag measured at the hitch, fully loaded. Rides great, truck looks level with the load. Haven't hit a bump stop yet.
2. I just added airbags (airlift), put the camper on, but haven't taken it out yet, so I'll let you know how they feel next week as we are headed out in a few days.
3. This truck rides rough (if you haven't already noticed). If you take the camper off, but have on AALs or stiffer shocks or higher rated tires, you are going to feel the stiffness and every bump. I don't leave my camper on, so adjustable is the only way to go for me which means airbags, not AAL. I went with airbags although I could have lived with a level truck.
4. Someone else asked, there is no locker for the new Tundra (yet). 4WD is all done with computer controlled brakes. I hear ARB is working on something. I expect to see lots of new stuff come out at SEMA next week.
5. Don't think you will need a sway bar. I recommend driving it first to see how it feels. I am extremely comfortable with the rig on CO mountain roads without one.
6. I too want to lift it ever so slightly. My plan, although I haven't done it yet, is to go with the Toytec 2" front (maybe roughcountry) and use the airbags to lift the rear. A 2" front lift will leave about 1" of rake on this truck, so I think I can be about level with the airbags in the back. If you want to go higher in back, you will probably need a block or AAL. FYI, Toytec is not affiliated with Toyota, so it does not "maintain" the warranty. It doesn't necessarily void it either, but if something fails because of the lift (like a CV boot), I would expect the dealer to make you pay for it.
7. Finally, I visit tundrasolutions.com regularly. There is a ton of great info on lifts, mods, etc. for this truck.

Good luck and let me know what you decide as I want to do very similar things to my rig.

 

[rossandwendy]

flinchlock, good idea for putting temorary weight in the bed to simulate the FWC load and measure the drop.

jarnis, the truck has pretty comprehensive skid plates with the TRD package. Most of my offroad use involves rough roads in places like Death Valley, southern Utah, and the Pacific Northwest for photography but not any recreational or technical 4WD stuff so I may not need to add much else, but will consider a winch for emergencies. By all accounts the BFG TA K/O is going to be a huge improvement over the stock tires for offroad traction and the larger size combined with the slight lift will get me an additional 1.5" of clearance which has proven helpful with previous trucks on some of the roads I've been on.

brett13, cool that you have the same rig and thanks for your info, I look forward to your report on how it rides with the airbags. At this point I am leaning towards doing the ToyTec 3" front and 1.5" rear w/add-a-leaf so I can run the BFG 305/65-18's, and also the Ride-Rite bags which will still be necessary to compensate for the sag of loaded camper and maintain the rear lift height. My FWC will stay on close to full-time, only removing it for the occasional household hauling job, so ride quality will be fine for me. I actually find the stock unloaded Tundra to be very comfortable and smooth and not at all rough or harsh even with the TRD package, especially compared to my 2000 Nissan Frontier which is really jarring. And this 5.7L engine is SICK, especially mated with the 6-speed tranny...I am going to have to be very dilligent to stay out of trouble with this beast

Cheers,
Ross

 

[brett13]

FYI, I just read somewhere- although for the life of me I can't remember where- that new shackles will soon be available to lift the rear. I may go with those. My ride is great on blacktop, but get on a concrete road and it is rough.

 

[davinski]

Hey, Y'all....

What are some ball park prices for these mods....airbags, springs, sway bars.....
I wonder if it is worth it.

Dave

 

[Old & In the Way]

1. Without any extra support, I experienced less than 3" of sag measured at the hitch, fully loaded. Rides great, truck looks level with the load. Haven't hit a bump stop yet.
2. I just added airbags (airlift), put the camper on, but haven't taken it out yet, so I'll let you know how they feel next week as we are headed out in a few days.
Pardon me for being confused...
In #1 you said, "Rides great, truck looks level with the load.", and you still added airbags?

3. This truck rides rough (if you haven't already noticed). If you take the camper off, but have on AALs or stiffer shocks or higher rated tires, you are going to feel the stiffness and every bump. I don't leave my camper on, so adjustable is the only way to go for me which means airbags, not AAL. I went with airbags although I could have lived with a level truck.
Pardon me for being confused...
In #1 you said, "Rides great", but now you say "rides rough"?
You said, "I went with airbags although I could have lived with a level truck." Why?

6. I too want to lift it ever so slightly.
Just for higher off road clearance?

Confused Mike

 

[Tomas Tierra]

The TRD Ross has should have softer bilstiens than the non-TRD that Brett rides.

Would make for a different ride.

 

[brett13]

Pardon me for being confused...
In #1 you said, "Rides great, truck looks level with the load.", and you still added airbags?

I added them because I expect to do some moderate off-roading. In those conditions I am likely to, say drop off an 8" ledge and need the support so as not to hit the bump stops. Basically, I wanted the extra support for those conditions. Also wanted them in anticipation of a small front end lift and I don't want to "drag ass". Being able to adjust the height of the rear with the bags will help clearance more than ride.

Pardon me for being confused...
In #1 you said, "Rides great", but now you say "rides rough"?
You said, "I went with airbags although I could have lived with a level truck." Why?


Yes, mostly for clearance. What I meant, but didn't actually say clearly, is that the truck rides very smooth with a heavy load. Fully loaded, it is indeed a nice ride. However, when unloaded it is rough. Very stiff. There has been a lot of debate on ride on other forums, but in my experience you feel the bumps unloaded. Concrete roads are bad, blacktop is just buttery. Never had a p/u before, so I can't compare. Take it for what its worth.

Quote:
6. I too want to lift it ever so slightly.
Just for higher off road clearance?

Yes. With the long wheelbase, I will definately "high center". I don't expect to get stuck, but I don't like the sound of scraping metal, denting the gas tank or possibly damaging something. Just two inches more and I probably won't hit anything.

The TRD Ross has should have softer bilstiens than the non-TRD that Brett rides.

Would make for a different ride.

I do have TRD which comes with stiffer Bilsteins.

 

[Old & In the Way]

brett13,

Thanks very much for the details!

Geez, more stuff for me to buy!

Mike