FWC Ranger II Frame Repair (and continued build thread maybe?)

[WillTheThri11]

OK, I decided to start a new thread and this could just turn into a continued build thread depending on how this all goes.

I posted a bit ago about cracked welds in my frame that I discovered due to door misalignment and what I thought was pretty significant twisting during jacking and lowering of the camper. thread: https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/20148-how-much-creaking-and-twisting-is-ok-when-jackingloading/

I reached out to FWC and they recommended against bracketing the frame connections and suggested welding the inside and outside wherever possible of the frame. They also said that all of the rectangular door frames cracked so that's why they went to the curved top...until just typing that, I hadn't considered retrofitting a rounded top door, but at this point, maybe it's not the worst idea I've had.

Since then a lot has happened:

1. I realized that the front wall had been repaired with brackets and rivets in the past
2. I disassembled the rear wall of the camper down to the bare frame as well as a portion of the side walls to be able to get at the corner where the back wall ties in to the side walls to be able to add reinforcing welds to the inside of the frame connections from corner to corner.
3. I searched high and low for someone willing to do the welding and was surprised at how difficult it was to find anyone. I could only find 2 people willing to do the job and they didn't provide the reassurance i felt I needed so what did I do????......
4. I bought a Tig welder, cause if an entire welding industry doesn't want to touch this thing then why would I think I couldn't do it myself and produce professional results??? haha let's see
4a. I watched lots of videos on tig welding and about 15 years ago i mig welded two halves of a car together to make one care that i was comfortable with my family members driving on the freeway. So maybe I'm not crazy....or maybe I am
4b. I just found out through a friend that he knows someone who tig welds
5. Welder arrived today, and I kinda wanna be really cocky and start practicing welding aluminum cans together, but I bought some practice stock too.
6. I'll also be building a platform out of 2x1" rectangular tubing since my camper requires a booster chair and some extra support on the end hanging out the back of the truck. Wondering if I should incorporate a ski drawer or table stowaway under there, but 2" ain't much

So buckle up and enjoy this thread to be and go read the other thread linked above for some more background if you care to.

1. A couple questions I still have is, should I replace the wall insulation with higher R-Value stuff? Can I do that after the back skin goes on or should it really be taped to the frame rails?
2. Anything I should do while the back wall is completely open and accessible before buttoning it back up? (backup cam, top brake light, steps to get to the roof, wiring for solar or vent fan, etc...)
3. oh and anybody in the southern california area wanna come over and just weld it for me so I don't destroy my camper and stand a chance of going camping sometime soon? (<-mostly...well partly kidding)
4. I was thinking about lopping off the taillights that the Ranger II and saving a couple pounds, but now I'm thinking of incorporating an outside storage box in that area where the camper overhangs the rear of the truck bed...thoughts?

 

[Karlton]

Nice summary of your journey thus far; albeit one you didn't plan on taking.


For this...6. I'll also be building a platform out of 2x1" rectangular tubing since my camper requires a booster chair and some extra support on the end hanging out the back of the truck. Wondering if I should incorporate a ski drawer or table stowaway under there, but 2" ain't much

I had to raise my camper 2" to accommodate the radius tailgate. While hunting around for ideas for a platform, I came across a few that were designed to have drawers and looked pretty slick. I'll search around again when I have a few and shoot you some links for ideas.

 

[WillTheThri11]

Nice summary of your journey thus far; albeit one you didn't plan on taking.


For this...6. I'll also be building a platform out of 2x1" rectangular tubing since my camper requires a booster chair and some extra support on the end hanging out the back of the truck. Wondering if I should incorporate a ski drawer or table stowaway under there, but 2" ain't much

I had to raise my camper 2" to accommodate the radius tailgate. While hunting around for ideas for a platform, I came across a few that were designed to have drawers and looked pretty slick. I'll search around again when I have a few and shoot you some links for ideas.

Thanks Karlton, with the WTW community and FWC support, I know I'll get this thing back on the road.

 

[Vic Harder]

#2 - yes to higher R-value insulation and taping. You want to create a much tighter sealed envelope than the factory version.

 

[WillTheThri11]

#2 - yes to higher R-value insulation and taping. You want to create a much tighter sealed envelope than the factory version.

Thanks, anything special to consider here? The pink rigid boards from the big box stores? Taped with that silver mylar tape? Do you tape it on both sides or just the outside? I guess you chisel out some grooves for wires, probably on the inside too?

 

[Vic Harder]

Thanks, anything special to consider here? The pink rigid boards from the big box stores? Taped with that silver mylar tape? Do you tape it on both sides or just the outside? I guess you chisel out some grooves for wires, probably on the inside too?

I installed mine from the inside, and only taped the inside. Like when you insulate a house, the vapor barrier goes on the inside. Used 1" thick (R5 or R7 i believe) rigid pink board. Cut some with the table saw, some with a knife. Silver Duct tape. Some smaller spaces I stuffed with the usual fiberglass batting. Wires need spaces left for the them for sure.

There are some pics in my PUMA build thread... link in my signature block.

 

[WillTheThri11]

First few test welds...I’ve got my work cut out for me. May have to call up my welding instructor friend for some help.

Also had to add some steel cladding to my little workbench to keep it from burning.

 

[HughDog]

For whatever its worth, the gauge on the original FWC aluminum frame will set your pace for the selected weld machine and approach. Because the gauge of the older FWC's aluminum frame is so thin (18 or so) sometimes when permitted, you can take .063 sheet aluminum under the tubes you are joining, . . . hit the the sheet metal first, then bring the weld into the thinner stuff so you don't burn holes into it. If you are tigging, life is a lot easier, but I have used a spoolgun for lots of this kind of repair.

I'm in socal and would be glad to connect on my experience welding onto those FWC frames....

 

[hebegebe]

First few test welds...I’ve got my work cut out for me. May have to call up my welding instructor friend for some help.

Also had to add some steel cladding to my little workbench to keep it from burning.

Surgical clean, slow down and make it look like dimes stacked upon each other. No substitute for patience and practice!

 

[WillTheThri11]

For whatever its worth, the gauge on the original FWC aluminum frame will set your pace for the selected weld machine and approach. Because the gauge of the older FWC's aluminum frame is so thin (18 or so) sometimes when permitted, you can take .063 sheet aluminum under the tubes you are joining, . . . hit the the sheet metal first, then bring the weld into the thinner stuff so you don't burn holes into it. If you are tigging, life is a lot easier, but I have used a spoolgun for lots of this kind of repair.

I'm in socal and would be glad to connect on my experience welding onto those FWC frames

Wow, you've spool gunned on FWC frames? That's impressive. Wish I woulda come across you a couple weeks ago when I was planning this all out. The tubing on my camper is "about" 18 gauge. The wall thickness if fairly inconsistent unfortunately. I need a good amount more practice before I'll feel comfortable on the camper.

I'm in Altadena, what part of SoCal are you in?

 

[WillTheThri11]

Surgical clean, slow down and make it look like dimes stacked upon each other. No substitute for patience and practice!

Ya, I wiped with Acetone, then wire brushed (brand new stainless steel brush) and a final Acetone wipe on that coupon. I think patience and speed are very different things as they pertain to welding Aluminum. I think I need the patience to continue to learn to get the right speed to not overheat the part. All three of those beads penetrated the full .125" thickness of the coupon.

 

[HughDog]

Wow, you've spool gunned on FWC frames? That's impressive. Wish I woulda come across you a couple weeks ago when I was planning this all out. The tubing on my camper is "about" 18 gauge. The wall thickness if fairly inconsistent unfortunately. I need a good amount more practice before I'll feel comfortable on the camper.

I'm in Altadena, what part of SoCal are you in?

Yeah, I've spooled directly to it (tube to tube) and burnt a ton of holes that way- not ideal for a big project. But for amending some cracks here and there, where you can afford to affix the offending tubes to a piece of sheet metal, it works really well and is a solid joiner.

On my current mod project, I went ahead and chopped out the entire frame up to the crown piece, so that I could deal with the consistency that new 1/16" tube would bring my spoolgun. Tigging would have been the better way if I was going to be working a lot with the 18 gauge stuff.

I'm in San Diego, .. pm me if you want to chat through anything ... I could probably send some feeds of the description as I'm doing a ton of roof mods to install a new lift mechanism that is hinge / welded into the 18 gauge roof frame. Fun stuff!

 

[ffs]

I suggest your aluminum foil for taping the insulation, as it has a acrylic adhesive. Most duct tape adhesives dry out over time, acrylic doesn't.

 

[WillTheThri11]

Well I think I owe an update. It was a crazy week of sweltering heat and late night welding but I got it back together in time to go camping for a long weekend. Welding to the rounded corner tubing was really challenging and I’m not sure I did the best job but it held up well on the trip.

1. Made a frame platform for under the camper out of aluminum to practice and to add structure under the overhanging portion of the camper.

2. Built the replacement corner up using the tail light frame (would’ve been much quicker to make this new)

3. Welded in the replacement corner framing. The butt welds turned out to be fairly challenging. Welding out of position on thin gauge aluminum to thinner gauge aluminum is no joke.

 

[WillTheThri11]

Rough timeline of my schedule.

watched lots of youtube videos on tig welders and welding aluminum -> bought a primeweld tig 225

Welder arrived Tuesday so I unboxed and put it together that evening and didn't run any beads (at this point i have a pipe dream that I'll spend the evenings during the week learning to weld and weld up the camper on the weekend and hit the road to go camping Sunday or Monday....boy was I oblivious)

Wednesday-ran some test beads with no filler made amazing improvement for the first few beads and then it all went to hell to the point of putting down the torch and going back to the youtube and reaching out to some friends with some experience. I thought i may have had bad argon, or a bunch of other things, but it was probably just a fouled Tungsten. I did notice that as outside temperature got warmer my welding got much worse and i think it was the physics at play not my abilities so I tried to stop welding in the afternoons and weld again in the evenings

Thursday- ok welder is welding again, but things are still not looking terrific. Welds have a grainy appearance and speeds and feeds might be to blame.

Took Friday off and worked all day. Finally decided i was ready to weld tubes together for the platform. These welds were 0.125" wall square tube so they weren't too difficult. They were also not really structural. Loads should go through the tubes much more than through the weld.

By Sunday I have a platform frame (I need to add a crossbar or two still though) (Pic 1 above) I realize the importance of fit up especially for Aluminum and Tig. With Mig it's not too difficult to fill gaps in mild steel. So I buy a non-ferrous saw blade for the aluminum cuts I have to do next ( i used a cut off wheel for the 45° miters and they weren't perfect and the frame may be slightly parallelogram rather than a perfect rectangle, but close enough.

Monday (i've taken the week off to go camping...not welding)- I'm more comfortable welding at this point since I've done a lot of practice and actually built something. Time to practice on the thinner stuff. So I mock up the welds I will have to do. It goes much better than previous welds so I jump into fabbing up the replacement corner framing. I do as much as I can on the workbench and only what I have to do in place/out of position. I realize that reusing the tail light frame was a mistake and spent way too much time trying to splice that in where building new (i had the material) would've gone far better. Still I'm able to finish by Monday and start to prep the surfaces for joining to the camper (have to do final prep immediately prior to welding.

Tuesday-time to weld to the camper! should be easy right. I already practiced with pieces I had cut off the camper and welding that to the new material, but I didn't account for the out of position factor which destroyed efficiency...oh ya and apparently I cut on the wrong side of the line so one of my frame members was a blade width short. I attempted to fill that with welding rod with eventual success but this was extremely time consuming since the extra thin camper framing was very easy to burn away. Some time around midnight i had finally filled the last hole I blew in it. I rotated through the weld areas to avoid overheating the areas too much which was time consuming but probably slightly more efficient than waiting for a weld to cool. I managed to add a few reinforcing beads to the internal frame but at this point I've decided to button up the camper and go camping before doing all of the welding I had hoped to do on the inside wall.

Wednesday-feeling pretty good. Time to put the camper back together and go camping. I have another pipe dream that i'll hit the road in the afternoon/evening and sleep on the beach between Ventura and Santa Barbara somewhere. Mind you the camper is still in pieces (no fridge, no interior or exterior walls in the back, cabinets pulled apart, tent is partially removed, etc...) Well we got close and i probably would've left that evening, but with no place to go we decided it was better to sleep in our beds one more night...plus i was exhausted from basically assembling half a camper in one day.

Thursday morning-Camping finally! Drove almost the entire length of CA with not a single glimpse of blue sky through the smoke from Altadena to Gualala. Stopped at a weigh station to see for the first time how overloaded i might be...200lbs overweight on the rear axle with not a drop of water in the holding tank and about 5/8 propane and a full tank of gas. 100 lbs under on the front axle but 500 lbs over full GVWR...yikes!The truck and airbags handled it like a champ though, but I may be looking for ways to cut weight in the near future. I had hoped to add solar, but will need to go lithium if i have any hope of not adding weight.

For all the ugly welds you can look at my google photos. Posting the 4 photos above was more than enough to try my patience.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rGKpnd5dFefMKNodA

 

[Karlton]

That was an interesting read. Can't say that I would have jumped in like you did, and probably would have just sold the camper. I actually looked into welding classes in my area after your initial posts stating you purchased a tig welder as it seemed interesting and challenging.

I don't think you are dangerously overloaded based on your photos, but GVW is a big topic and involves individual tolerance.

thanks for the write up!

 

[WillTheThri11]

That was an interesting read. Can't say that I would have jumped in like you did, and probably would have just sold the camper. I actually looked into welding classes in my area after your initial posts stating you purchased a tig welder as it seemed interesting and challenging.

I don't think you are dangerously overloaded based on your photos, but GVW is a big topic and involves individual tolerance.

thanks for the write up!

Thanks for reading and your kind words! I do enjoy welding and having those skills/tools in my arsenal. Steel wouldn't scare me half as much as aluminum, but in the end i rolled the dice and decided to jump in head first. Many times through the project I wished I had paid the one guy who said he would do it for $500 in one day rather than the several days and ~$1000 I spent instead. I followed my guy though thinking that I wouldn't actually get what I wanted from the guy for $500 and I think it was the right move in the end, but make no mistake it was a huge undertaking that I forced myself into an aggressive schedule on. That ultimately got it done, but I would've preferred more time to practice the out of position welds and filling gaps on thin aluminum before doing it on the real thing. Out of position welding is something that doesn't seem like a big deal when coming from one-handed mig-welding but is a whole new beast when controlling your electrode and filler with separate hands and a foot.

I honestly considered selling the camper, but I've only had it for a year (spent the previous year hunting for one on craigslist and the forum here) and just because I got kinda screwed by the previous owner, I didn't want to pass that off on someone else. And with the burden of knowing everything that was wrong with it, I couldn't in good conscience withhold that info.

The photos could be deceiving regarding overload, I have airbags at 60psi that have not trouble leveling the load at all. When you say the topic "involves individual tolerance", are you just referring to finding the weakest link and bolstering that? Like with Tacoma's it seems that the suspension/leaf springs are the initial weak link. Beefing up the leaf springs then puts more load on the shackle mounts which are a bit flimsy. Replacing the shackle hangers only leaves boxing the frame and or beefing up the crossmember left for example...?

 

[Karlton]

I certainly gained an appreciation for the skill involved in welding.

I was actually referring to an individual's tolerance for being over GVW. Some folks get all Old Man Emu components and upgrade the entire suspension, some folks add Timbrens and head out. From reading posts for a few years, it seems leaf spring upgrades are a used by many to increase the trucks hauling capabilities. The follow on question is, are the brakes capable for the load. To me, you gotta be able to haul it, and gotta be able to stop it.

This Tacoma build is legend.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/hodakaguys-overland-tacoma-builds-on-to-new-adventures.528480/

 

[WillTheThri11]

Personally I don't worry a whole lot about the the stopping. I haven't had any issues with brake fade. I do know it takes a bit longer to stop with the weight, but I drive slow with the camper and take it into account continuously. Also, I know most trailers have some kind of brakes, but they don't do all of the braking and I wouldn't hesitate to haul a 1500lb trailer without trailer braking.

I have seen that Tacoma actually, it's pretty awesome! I'm going to look more at it since I think he and I have both progressed since I looked at it last.

My biggest concern is limiting the ability offroad. I'm worried about flexing the truck and breaking things like control arms, shackle mounts and ultimately the frame. I'd love to run the truck/camper like this guy (http://ourfourwheelcamper.blogspot.com/2012/07/courtright-reservoir.html)
and not have the issues he's had with the frame. He has a 1st gen Tacoma, but I haven't seen anyone with a 2nd gen and that kind of experience or a glowing review of the frame/payload capability.