FWC Victron DC to DC charger upgrade help / 2017 Hawk

[howtomountaingoat]

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[pvstoy]

I just used a separate connection for the green running lights and zipped tied it to the Anderson connection and wires.

 

[Jon R]

I have a Victron Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30 Isolated DC to DC charger installed in my 2021 Grandby front dinette with 200 ah lithium battery. The camper is on a 2021 GMC cclb truck with a smart alternator. That combination probably has the longest wire run from truck battery to camper battery of any normal pickup installation.

First, 2 awg is unnecessary unless you are using that wiring for other loads. It is bulky and stiff to work with in routing on the truck and camper. 6 awg from the truck battery to the Orion in the camper is adequate to limit voltage drop to where the Orion does not trigger its periodic cycling to verify the engine is still running. That’s important. Beyond that, the charger compensates for any voltage drop to properly charge the lithium battery. That’s what it’s for. The most that wire will ever carry when supplying the Orion will be 35 amps. If you are going to connect other equipment to the truck bed connector at times, such as a compressor or other high current equipment, that may be a reason to run larger wire to that point.

Second, yes you can and should tie the camper clearance lights into your running lights, and that is done separately from the 12 volt charging wiring. Like pvstoy above, I have a small side connector tethered to my Anderson SB50 power connector. I did not install plugs in my truck bed. I just ran a pigtail over the front wall of the bed and stow it underneath when the camper s off. I use the SB50 rubber environmental boots with caps so the stowed connector is dry and safe.

Finally, you can leave the Iota in there and it will still be useful as a 12 volt power supply when connected to shore power. However, if it’s a DLS30-IQ4 like I have, it’s almost useless for charging the lithium battery in most scenarios because it does not apply adequate voltage to drive much charging current due to its control logic. There are other recent threads about that.

 

[Jon R]

I think your choice of 150ah of lithium battery is about the right size for a Grandby for most people. I can go 5 nights in Summer and 4 nights in Winter on my fully charged 200 ah battery with no charging. You should be able to easily go a full 3 day weekend with no charging on 150 ah.

I also think installing the dc to dc charger as your first charging system upgrade with lithium is a good choice. Next solar, then last (if at all) shore power.

 

[Vic Harder]

When running your 6AWG (or bigger) wires, remember to add breakers at both ends so that a short won't cause a catastrophic disaster. I used Blue Sea 285 series surface mounts on mine.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hi howtomountaingoat,

I’m going to let the electrical experts weigh in, but I did want to welcome you to Wander the West, it’s the best place to hangout on the web.

 

[howtomountaingoat]

When running your 6AWG (or bigger) wires, remember to add breakers at both ends so that a short won't cause a catastrophic disaster. I used Blue Sea 285 series surface mounts on mine.

Planning on it, what amperage would you recommend?

 

[pvstoy]

I ran 4 gauge welding wire and used 80 Amp breakers at both ends.

 

[Jon R]

I have 6 awg Ancor marine type 3 wire and used an 80 amp fuse at the truck battery fuse block. A 50 amp fuse would have been sufficient to supply the Orion with margin, but the fuses are proprietary to GM and there was an available 80 amp fuse on the block, and it was adequate to prevent excessive wire heating per the Ancor and Blue Sea charts.

I did not put a fuse at the camper end of that wire because it only goes into the Orion dc to dc converter input. The converter output is connected to my positive bus bar. I do have an 80 amp fuse between my camper battery positive and my positive bus bar. So even if there was a wire short to ground AND a failure of the converter that somehow passed current in the opposite direction, the current supplies from both the camper and truck battery are fused at 80 amps.

The battery fuse size was driven by my 6 awg wire size throughout the main power system wiring, which was driven by the desire to limit voltage drop from the to the Orion, and the total possible simultaneous charging current from the Orion and my solar charger, which was 60 amps. I was not worried about adding shore power charging in at the same time. If someone did that, my wire would be fine but the fuse may blow, but I never use shore power.

 

[Vic Harder]

Planning on it, what amperage would you recommend?

What Jon R said above is a good guide.

 

[howtomountaingoat]

Thanks everyone. I am all kitted out with 4awg wire, 175amp anderson plugs, two 50amp blue sea breakers, and two 150ah batteries for 300ah LiFePO4 storage total. I also added a 1000watt inverter with a 150amp blue sea breaker. I am planning on adding a vent similar to the vent that covers the IOTA to the interior battery box wall the give even more ventilation (it has small circular vents to the tiedown area, but id like the interior wall to also have venitalation). I've also installed a temperature monitor so I can monitor battery box temp from the truck drivers seat for longer drives where the Victron may get hot. If temperature is a constant issue I will add a barrel latch to keep the battery box hatch open during drives.

So far, so good. The existing Zamp PWM controller + 160 watt panel tops off the batteries to around 98%. The Victron 30amp DCtoDC charges the batteries FAST. Both batteries were at 80% and after a run to the grocery store both batteries were topped off. Inverter charges phone, laptop, and runs Starlink router without kicking the internal fan on.

Thanks again.

 

[maurzog]

@howtomountaingoat

Thanks for posting this! I am approaching this exact scenario with my 2018 Hawk, I just purchased a 200AH lithium battery locally, It came with a 20a DC-DC Renogy charger but thinking of replacing it with the Orion 30A to get a little more current and to go with my Victron Smart Monitor and Smartsolar with 400 watts of panels.

Do you just wire in the DC-DC next to the battery for the wiring coming from the alternator? I do not have the camper with me so do not have photos of the wiring. Should I leave the IOTA DLS-30 as is? I thought the alternator current came through the IOTA as well but I must be wrong.

Any help is appreciated so I can get ordered what I need.

Also thanks KP for breaking this stuff down, I just need it even further spelled out

 

[Jon R]

In a stock Hawk with an electrical system, the positive wire from the truck goes to the Blue Sea ACR, then to the fuse panel hot bus. It does not go “through” the DLS30. The DLS30 output positive is also connected to the fuse panel hot bus. Finally, the battery positive is connected to the fuse panel hot bus via the silver push/pull switch.

If you install a dc to dc converter, you will change the truck positive wire to go straight to the dc to dc converter (and nowhere else) and the dc to dc converter output goes directly to the battery or your battery bus bar. You would disconnect the truck power wire from the ACR and disable the ACR by disconnecting it or pulling the inline fuse. Appropriate fusing was discussed above.

You can leave the DLS30 as is to use as a shore power 120vac to 12vdc converter.

 

[Jon R]

Thanks everyone. I am all kitted out with 4awg wire, 175amp anderson plugs, two 50amp blue sea breakers, and two 150ah batteries for 300ah LiFePO4 storage total. I also added a 1000watt inverter with a 150amp blue sea breaker. I am planning on adding a vent similar to the vent that covers the IOTA to the interior battery box wall the give even more ventilation (it has small circular vents to the tiedown area, but id like the interior wall to also have venitalation). I've also installed a temperature monitor so I can monitor battery box temp from the truck drivers seat for longer drives where the Victron may get hot. If temperature is a constant issue I will add a barrel latch to keep the battery box hatch open during drives.

So far, so good. The existing Zamp PWM controller + 160 watt panel tops off the batteries to around 98%. The Victron 30amp DCtoDC charges the batteries FAST. Both batteries were at 80% and after a run to the grocery store both batteries were topped off. Inverter charges phone, laptop, and runs Starlink router without kicking the internal fan on.

Thanks again.

The Orion produces heat, but I have not found it to be a problem in my closed Grandby battery compartment. I’ve stopped and checked it at rest stops. The only vents in my compartment are the two 2 inch round exterior vents. Mount it low and per the instructions.

 

[maurzog]

Thanks Jon super helpful. I started the teardown today and seems straightforward, 200 AH battery barely drops in, few hiccups like the anderson plug I ordered but at least should have all the wiring done tomorrow.

One question I had was I got the non-isolated Orion and was just going to run the single ground back to the bus bar, no reason for the isolated version I assume, correct?

 

[Jon R]

Thanks Jon super helpful. I started the teardown today and seems straightforward, 200 AH battery barely drops in, few hiccups like the anderson plug I ordered but at least should have all the wiring done tomorrow.

One question I had was I got the non-isolated Orion and was just going to run the single ground back to the bus bar, no reason for the isolated version I assume, correct?

Non-isolated will work fine, and is what most people use.

I bought the isolated version because I originally intended to keep my camper ground isolated from the truck ground. I was unable to do that because the running lights, which are supposed to have a separate ground wire to the camper negative bus bar, had the ground wire for one of the rear spot lights connected to the running light ground. This produced some very odd behavior as I tried to isolate the running light ground and wire it to the truck, but I eventually figured it out. My two choices were to take the rear wall apart to fix the wiring or just tie the truck and camper grounds together. So my system is non-isolated.

 

[maurzog]

Got it will just be tying it all back into the bus bar so hopefully GTG.

 

[RHarries]

In a stock Hawk with an electrical system, the positive wire from the truck goes to the Blue Sea ACR, then to the fuse panel hot bus. It does not go “through” the DLS30. The DLS30 output positive is also connected to the fuse panel hot bus. Finally, the battery positive is connected to the fuse panel hot bus via the silver push/pull switch.

If you install a dc to dc converter, you will change the truck positive wire to go straight to the dc to dc converter (and nowhere else) and the dc to dc converter output goes directly to the battery or your battery bus bar. You would disconnect the truck power wire from the ACR and disable the ACR by disconnecting it or pulling the inline fuse. Appropriate fusing was discussed above.

You can leave the DLS30 as is to use as a shore power 120vac to 12vdc converter.

I am in the midst of upgrading a 2009 HAWK to a LiPO4 battery and installing the Orion non-isolated 12-12/30 DC charger. I assume that this charger will replace the Sure power 1314A battery separator. I do not understand if I should connect the Iota DLS30 charger/converter to the "IN" connection of the Orion DC charger, or if this line should be extended to connect directly to the new LiPO4 battery (+ BUS).

NOTE: As originally wired, the 1314 separator had two 10 gauge wires connected to the forward post (one from the truck battery, and one I assume from the Iota converter), the rear post had a single 10 gauge wire to the house battery. I would like the ability to maintain functionality of the Iota charger/converter as I often use shore power to chill the fridge prior to departure (3-way). I understand the Iota DSL30 will not ideally charge the LiPO4 battery.

I also plan to installed fused 6 AWG to replace the 10 AWG , however I am unsure if this upgrade is necessary if I don't rely on or need the truck alternator charging capability (?)

 

[Jon R]

Hi. There are some threads where people have talked about wiring their DLS-30/IQ4 output to the input of a dc to dc charger to allow the DLS-30 to more effectively charge their LiFePO battery. The DLS-30 itself doesn’t have a voltage profile that allows you to charge a lithium battery fully or quickly under most conditions. This is NOT the typical way a shore power charger is wired into a FWC system, and personally I would not recommend it.

The more conventional way to set up a FWC charging system with lithium, solar, and dc to dc charging is for the dc to dc charger to only take current from the truck system and have its output wired directly to the camper battery (via fuse and bus bars), and for the solar charger output also to be wired directly to the camper battery bus bar. The DLS-30 output existing connection to the camper’s 12 volt fuse block hot bus is left in place, and the wire that went from the camper AGM battery to the fuse block hot bus via the silver battery switch is connected to the camper battery bus bar. This will allow you to use the DLS-30 as a 12 volt shore power supply same as in the original configuration.

My situation sounds similar to yours in that I almost never use my dc to dc charger. My solar charging is almost always adequate when camping to keep me above 75% the whole time (400 watts of panels and a 30 amp mppt charger). The only time I have turned on the Orion is when I have had the camper significantly discharged during long storage and want to charge it to 100% during the drive starting a camping trip. If I did dead-of-winter camping I’d use it more, but I’m mostly a fair-weather camper.

 

[RHarries]

Thanks for the quick and informative response JonR. I will be installing the DC charger in the conventional manner you describe.

If I understand your recommendation correctly for continued usage of the Iota DSL30, I should leave the SurePower 1314A in place, and run a new dedicated wire connecting its aft post directly to the Camper battery positive Bus bar. I was hoping to remove the 1314A battery separator, as the cabinet is very cluttered...