Hard sided pop top - how would you do it?

[DirtyDog]

Building a hard-sided pop-up camper has some real challenges. The greatest of these challenges are how to have hard sides on the cabover since the roof raises a much greater distance than the thickness of the cabover section. Also doors have been quite a headache on this style camper. Anyone have some clever ideas on how to resolve these challenges?

(this has nothing to do with my current build project)

 

[pods8]

I'm going to run into these challenges. I haven't fully decided on them either at this point.

For the cab over I liked the folding Alaskan hard sides but don't like that things are exposed during the up/down, so I'd think an exterior liner would be in order. However if going that route doing a bit more robust sideliner for normal usage and then adding hard sides for the cold weather like XP is doing makes sense. I don't readily have an answer for how the sideliner would be sealed against the hardwall since the sideline folds inwards and the hardwall slides down. At this point I'm thinking velco or a zipper that you'd have to manually attach when the top goes up and undo before dropping the top would likely have to come into play.


For the door a vertically split one just on the bottom part of the shell could be one way and would resolve a lot of the issues. However doing that means you've got to like with a ~4' tall door just like a FWC and when the top is down you'd need to crawl through a small doorway (in my design maybe 2' tall) which isn't that great. But the handles/latches would be pretty straight forward.

Doing overlapping doors looks a bit trickier, I've got some ideas but really need to go inspect a variety of RV door latches, dead bolts, and cabinet latches to see if something really stands out. Right now I'd say the outer door which is shielded by the inner one when the top is down I might think about having a detent catch on for normal in/out and just a deadbolt for locking purposes (with a rod on the inside extending up above the inner door). Probably the same for the inner door but without the need for the rod. Outside of that one just needs to make sure the frames are stiff. If I'm using the term right for detent catch I just mean one that holds itself closed against casual pulling but pops loose when some force is actually applied, thus all the security and positive latching would be in the deadbolt.

You have any thoughts?

 

[DirtyDog]

You have any thoughts?


I was thinking a v top (rather than a top that raises vertically) might work pivoting at the cab-over end of the roof. If you slept with your feet at the lowest point the space might be fine. A lot of european campers do this. Another advantage would be that you could put weight on the top and raise and lower the top much more easily than the vertical lift.

I might expand my wood model a bit later to see how feasible this would be.

 

[BSS]

I think it would be easiest to build a set of lift panels with piano hinges just like 4WC has now (obviously with a more durable material than 1/4" plywood) except on all four sides, and connected them via some kind of neoprene boot at the corners.

You could probably even retrofit a regular 4WC to something like this without too much hassle. Windows would be a bit tricky, but certainly not impossible.

 

[pods8]

I was thinking a v top (rather than a top that raises vertically) might work pivoting at the cab-over end of the roof. If you slept with your feet at the lowest point the space might be fine. A lot of european campers do this. Another advantage would be that you could put weight on the top and raise and lower the top much more easily than the vertical lift.


Interesting. Off the top of my head two things jump out though. To sleep long ways you really need about a 78" long bed, that means you're either going to have a really long cabover or need to have a pullout bed extension into the base camper space like FWC/ATC does for the bigger beds. I was hoping to get away from that personally, you may not mind. Also unless you're not going to allow access into it with the top down wouldn't you run into the same door issues as the overlapping camper design (maybe ever compounded more so)? If so you're only addressed the cabover part which seems like the lesser of the two issues to me.

I think it would be easiest to build a set of lift panels with piano hinges just like 4WC has now (obviously with a more durable material than 1/4" plywood) except on all four sides, and connected them via some kind of neoprene boot at the corners.


If it was on all 4 sides that type of design would have interference with itself when they folded inwards.

 

[DirtyDog]

Actually i'm not sure why i even asked this question as it only took a couple of hours to come up with the same conclusion i always do: wouldn't try a hard-sided popup with a cabover.

 

[pods8]

Actually i'm not sure why i even asked this question as it only took a couple of hours to come up with the same conclusion i always do: wouldn't try a hard-sided popup with a cabover.


Wouldn't go that far, there are definite pro's and cons. But with the vertical door arrangement I mentioned and doing soft side over the cabover the only two differences from a full soft side popup would be less accessibility in the down position (door would be the same size in the up position) and just needing to to manually seal/unseal the soft side to hard side connection when going up/down.

That doesn't necessarily seem like a full soft side slam dunk to me.

Doing a non-cabover doesn't solve any of the door problems either. You just hung up on the sealing the softside to the hardside at the cabover connection?

 

[DirtyDog]

Well the non-cabover solves half of the problems and that makes it a bit more palatable to me.

 

[DirtyDog]

Home Skillet was just over and using beer power he solved the door problem in a pretty clever way. I'll let him post about it so I don't steal his thunder

 

[BSS]

If it was on all 4 sides that type of design would have interference with itself when they folded inwards.


I don't think it would if all of the corners were 45 degrees.

Although I suppose it could interfere with the lights and whatever else wasn't flush with the interior ceiling, and I can't really think of how you would be able to raise or lower one end at a time like we do now. The whole thing would have to go up and down as a unit.

 

[pods8]

Home Skillet was just over and using beer power he solved the door problem in a pretty clever way. I'll let him post about it so I don't steal his thunder


I'll be interested to hear. I'm hoping to layup some fiberglass this weekend over some test core pieces I made this week, if that goes well I'm one step closer to going forward...

This maybe swaying your decision on a hard side now?

I don't think it would if all of the corners were 45 degrees.

Although I suppose it could interfere with the lights and whatever else wasn't flush with the interior ceiling, and I can't really think of how you would be able to raise or lower one end at a time like we do now. The whole thing would have to go up and down as a unit.


Yeah if you coped out the corners (thus big triangles in the up position) it could work but they you still have a lot of soft side, along with the lifting difficulties since you'd probably need to move away from a manual lift and the folding sides would hit many mechanisms.

 

[ntsqd]

Soeneke's (sp?) door solution is one option for a hard sided pop-top. I believe that with a notched flat bed that a similar type of entry could be made to work on the side of the truck.

Where is it written that a hard sided pop-top can only have one sliding section? I've seen several European "Expo" rigs that have two sliding sections. Almost doubles the raised height for the same lowered profile, but does come at the expense of possibly a thicker wall. Careful insulation choice along with not expecting service in winter arctic conditions could mitigate the wall thickness issue.

 

[pods8]

Soeneke's (sp?) door solution is one option for a hard sided pop-top. I believe that with a notched flat bed that a similar type of entry could be made to work on the side of the truck.

Where is it written that a hard sided pop-top can only have one sliding section? I've seen several European "Expo" rigs that have two sliding sections. Almost doubles the raised height for the same lowered profile, but does come at the expense of possibly a thicker wall. Careful insulation choice along with not expecting service in winter arctic conditions could mitigate the wall thickness issue.


That is what I was referring to before but it doesn't exactly solve the issue. The door is still a short door and unless there is an angle where the lower door is you end up having to crawl forward into the lower door instead up on an angle upward. Its not the end of the world but not ideal either. If you went far enough to notch the bed it'd definitely help but for me my door is likely in the wheel well area so that would be no go. I haven't written off that door style yet though (the upper half also makes its own small awning which would be nice too.

Good point on the double stacked wall. That could have potential in the cabover wall depending on how thick that profile is and how much pop'd height you're trying for. I'll definitely stew that one over. Will have to either widen the camper a tad (1" thick will be my minimum wall thickness) and/or rob a tad of length in the bed.

See DD, not a wasted thread at all!

 

[leadsled9]

I've been reading this thread about building a new camper with a better layout designed around a flatbed platform with great interest.

I've already seen the nicest setup on a flatbed.....the XP Camper. I love the layout, looks and construction. If I had the money I would own one.

If I'm not mistaken, I belive that it is a hard side pop up.

Why reinvent the wheel?

 

[pods8]

I've been reading this thread about building a new camper with a better layout designed around a flatbed platform with great interest.

I've already seen the nicest setup on a flatbed.....the XP Camper. I love the layout, looks and construction. If I had the money I would own one.

If I'm not mistaken, I belive that it is a hard side pop up.

Why reinvent the wheel?


For starters it still has the soft wall issue we're talking about. Also I've gathered from DD that he's not entirely sold on how the doors are done on that design either so the door is still outstanding (correct me if I'm wrong DD, you've seen the design, I have no idea how its done but I doubt we'd be talking about the doors in this thread if he witnessed what he liked).

Nice platform for sure but it definitely doesn't suit me in its stock arrangement in terms of layout. I hashed out most of this on expo when it came up but here are a few big ones:
Too long for my taste at 8'-9" I believe.
Dinette is too small, I want 40" wide to accommodate 2 adults and 2 kids.
It has a solid front wall which is part of the storage area, thus no access to the truck cab which I don't like.
I don't want to dedicate the space for the shower/toilet that it does (that is why its longer and has a smaller dinette).
Etc.

That said, that design hitting the US market and showing us up and close the perks of a flatbed design that has already been going on over seas definitely has spurred the itch among folks like us to reap some of those rewards.

Just my personal thoughts.

 

[DirtyDog]

The XPcamper is the best out there by a mile. The interior is SO MUCH NICER than any other camper it pretty much puts every other camper to shame. I'd buy one now if I had more funds.

I wouldn't do a cab through it creates more problems that it solves.

The door as I have seen it has some issues but Marc says he's redesigned it so we will see.

I'd take the XP as-is and wouldn't worry about the hard side stuff. The tent in the XP is pretty small compared to a FWC and is quite a bit thicker.

But the XP camper is just another class of camper - both in terms of quality and price. These camper designs I'm discussing are FWC range campers.

 

[pods8]

I wouldn't do a cab through it creates more problems that it solves.


Other than loosing some space are you see any other issues I might not have though of?

 

[DirtyDog]

Other than loosing some space are you see any other issues I might not have though of?


You have to have a hole in the camper, and a hole in the truck (no small deal). That alone is enough to make a big compromise.

Beyond that someone told me something I hadn't thought of before. In a camper you have dishes and silverware and a bunch of gear. When you are driving it rattles. If you have a cab through with no door you are subjected to rattling gear non-stop. I do some very long drives and I like my cab experience to be death metal nirvana

 

[pods8]

You have to have a hole in the camper, and a hole in the truck (no small deal). That alone is enough to make a big compromise.

Beyond that someone told me something I hadn't thought of before. In a camper you have dishes and silverware and a bunch of gear. When you are driving it rattles. If you have a cab through with no door you are subjected to rattling gear non-stop. I do some very long drives and I like my cab experience to be death metal nirvana


My bad, I didn't mean a full pass through. I just meant having an opening window on the front of the camper (just like FWC/ATC) to match up with the rear truck window. I like being able to toss bags through to the back of the truck and such.

 

[DirtyDog]

My bad, I didn't mean a full pass through. I just meant having an opening window on the front of the camper (just like FWC/ATC) to match up with the rear truck window. I like being able to toss bags through to the back of the truck and such.


I had that on my first FWC and found it marginally useful. I didn't get it at all with my current FWC and I certainly wouldn't sacrifice any functionality in the camper for this.