Hi everyone! New guy here looking for advice

[Brewskier]

Hi everyone, great site! I haven't been lurking very long, but I can already tell that I am going to enjoy browsing the forum for advice.

A little bit about me. 28 year old from the Southern California area, who, for several years now, has been lusting over Sportsmobile brand vans. No doubt you've seen them, so I won't explain what they are. I had my heart set on getting one of these expensive monsters at some point, but after buying a house this year and looking at my budget, that goal seems too far away for my liking. At the Fred Hall show, I saw the Fourwheel Campers exhibition and a whole new world of possibilities opened up for me. I can find a used 4x4 diesel truck with 180,000 miles for about 5 grand, and I've seen used truck campers go for very cheap as well, so suddenly, this all seems possible to me. Way better than the $60k+ I would have to drop on a used Sportsmobile setup!

So, I'm currently doing my research on these campers. At first I was very excited at the idea of a popup truck camper, because I plan on doing some 4x4'ing (nothing too crazy... just taking some very rough roads from time to time), and I realize that these low profile, low-weight campers will not hinder me from taking rough roads. However, I read about some of the downsides of popup campers... the condensation, the lack of sound protection, flapping in the wind, not the best setup in very cold weather, and I started reconsidering hard-sided truck campers. The problem is, although these give better sound protection and insulation, they most likely won't be as good on rough roads, and will decrease my MPG because of the higher profile. That pointed me towards the Alaskan campers, which seem like the best of both worlds, although they are very expensive.

Looking for some advice. I will be camping all year round, in the desert and in the High Sierras. Price is a concern. I will probably end up buying something used for as cheap as possible, but I wanted to get some idea of what to look out for.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Ted]

Hi Brewskier,

Welcome to the forum. I agree with you that Sportsmobiles are nice but they sure are pricey. Don't forget that they are pop-ups as well, so your concerns with condensation, wind noise, sound insulation, etc will be no different in a pop-up camper than it would be in a Sortsmobile. Still, those concerns are legitimate. We have had those problems but just accept them as part of the cost of getting the kind of rig necessary to get to those more difficult to reach places. Kind of like accepting the brush scrapes along the side of your truck when getting to those places - you aren't thrilled about it but still do it.

We run the heater on cold nights (got down to 9 degrees on us a month back) and wipe the condensation off the canvas walls before dropping the top. Hasn't stopped us from getting out there at all. If you can't find a camper with a heater, there are lots of threads on here about using wave heaters. And several members have made their own insulation packs for cold weather. So you will be able to be completely happy with a pop-up camper on your truck. Good luck.
Ted

 

[MarkBC]

First of all, welcome to WTW, Brewskier!

Regarding the drawbacks of a soft-sided-pop-up like Four Wheel or ATC:
If you've spent years camping in a tent or out of the back of a canopy-covered pickup, as I have, then the less-than-RV-luxury of a FWC or ATC will still seem a huge improvement over a tent.

I haven't had trouble with condensation myself. Is there any? Yes, sometimes, but it's never been a problem for me. I make sure to air out the camper when I get home so any moisture inside will dry to avoid mildew.

In high winds the soft-sides can make some noise....but again, it's only when it's very windy and hasn't been a problem for me.

It's true that without some kind of insulation and without a heater running the inside temperature will approach the outside temperature on a cold night, but there are options for insulation and options for heater.
Reflectix is very cheap insulation, for one. The manufacturer-supplied Arctic Pack is not cheap, but it's more convenient than Reflectix as you can keep it in place.
Using a catalytic heater (such as Olympian Wave) is silent and uses no electricity, or using a built-in forced-air furnace is convenient and heats the camper faster.

Overall I'd say that whether or not you'll be happy with a soft-side-pop-up camper depends on what you're used to and what's important to you. I very-much appreciate the low profile and low weight of the FWC or ATC. Consider that the Alaskan has low profile but not as low weight.

My several ¢.

 

[Alley-Kat]

Welcome aboard,

I've only been on the forum for a little over a year, however, I have deduced that most members are popup camper guys and gals (and, so am I).

Most forum members will say "good" on the bigger truck, however, there are some of us with smaller rigs... Tacomas and Rangers.

Concerning popup truck campers...

Condensation, sure it happens, but not that big a deal (for me, at least). Just take a towel and wipe it off in the AM.

Cold Weather, that's where the condensation would happen, there is the Artic Pack, an extra, removable, interior insulation layer (some have even made their own version, instead of purchasing), and either a furnace or a portable type heater (both run on propane). You'll find plenty of threads on both, just look around.

Flapping in the wind, I've not experienced that. Once I camp I do use the two forward jacks to help stabilize the camper/truck from moving around as the interior weight shifts when we're inside (use only a very slight pressure on the jacks, just snug, no jacking up to level it). In a wind storm, sure a bit of movement from the canvas sides, but, it doesn't bother me from sleeping at night or cause any maintenance problems (that I've heard of). Some have even left the top up and driven on the freeway and no damage (I won't name names).

Sound protection, most of us like to get away from other people by boondock camping or dispersed camping. Hearing what is going on outside the camper is quieter than being in a tent, however, you can still hear the wind, the creek, the waves on the lake and other things. I like it, as it reminds me of where I am as I drift off to sleep. Even looking at the photos from various "get together" trip reports, no one even parks close to anyone else. And, if you and yours decide to get "busy", I don't think the wild life near by will mind a little extra noise coming from inside your camper.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

When looking at an older truck, it might be important to also look at the older campers (which would keep with your desired budget), as the truck bed design has changed over the years and some older campers will not fit on newer trucks. I think there are several threads on that topic that mention measurements.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Lastly, an advertisement for All Terrain Campers.
Time tested construction techniques and materials, and just about the same BASIC design features for a lower cost when new.
Plus, Jeff, Marty & Don at All Terrain Campers will work with you, to make your camper just the way you want it to be.


<EDIT - wow three almost identical responses. We were all typing at the same time.>

 

[ski3pin]

<snip>
wow three almost identical responses. We were all typing at the same time.


Yeah, great job guys. All I need to add is welcome!

 

[Brewskier]

Yeah, great job guys. All I need to add is welcome!


Great responses everyone, thank you very much!

I'm definitely leaning more towards a popup at this point, but the benefits of a hard side are still tempting me. I don't have kids yet, but I think my wife would probably be more comfortable in a hard side than a popup. Plus, we don't plan on completely cutting out the typical campground situation, and a hard side would be better for keeping out the noise and other elements that come along with camping alongside other people.

Thank you for the suggestion for ATC. I haven't run across them during my search, but I like what I see. Looks like FWC at a cheaper price, and I heard they have a very good reputation. Still, I most likely won't buy new simply because I can't afford to at this time.

Two things: would a full size truck be the best for off roading? I'm thinking a smaller 4x4 with a smaller wheelbase would be better, in which case I should probably look more into the 6'5 models than the 8-9's that I have been looking at.

If I did decide to get a hard-side, which ones are the lighest, lowest profiles out there?

Thanks again for all your help

 

[MarkBC]

.......I think my wife would probably be more comfortable in a hard side than a popup....

Oh...so you two didn't really discuss important stuff before you tied the knot?

Well...maybe it'll work out anyway...

---------
Whatever camper you get, if you start with a cheap used one then you can always change your mind some years later...rather than feeling "I spent so much on this I've gotta be happy with it".

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I also have to put a plug in for Marty and crew at ATC.They are the best in service and their product if first class and basic.No better pop up made IMO.Check around you can find used pop ups,Have you thought of a shell model? Don't know what to say about a truck. I went from a 06 Ranger to an 02 Tundra.I don't do hard off road but will travel forest and gravel/dirt roads.One thing to keep in mind make sure the camper you find fits the truck you find or visa versa.You might call Marty at ATC and ask him your questions about truck and camper.I am sure he would be glad to help you.

Welcome and good luck with your search.
Frank

 

[SunMan]

I don't have kids yet, but I think my wife would probably be more comfortable in a hard side than a popup.
Keep in mind FWC makes a hard side model too, I don't think they show it on their website though. Pic from a recent visit to the factory...

 

[brp]

I have seen utility companies that have E-350 4x4 diesel vans with a raised roof, that would be an awesome platform for a camper. There are also Quigley 4x4 vans. You might me able to get your Sportsmobile dream for A LOT less money if you keep your eyes open. These vans are also made as ambulances and T.V. vans. Look around, I like allofcraigs.com. Here is something that came up

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/cto/2878771782.html

http://duluth.craigslist.org/cto/2813033810.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/2832617817.html <-- this one is near you, locked and a cool roof rack, maybe you could add a pop top.


All that said, I have an ATC Bobcat / Tacoma and I really like it. The Tacoma is fine for a daily driver, so you don't need two vehicles.

 

[BobM]

I too almost pulled the plug on the sportsmobile as well as the GTRV and Pleassure Way Traverse. There were three major items that turned me off. Because of the galley setups I wasn't able to recline the drivers seat to a comfortable angle. The problem with any of the camper vans including roadtrek and Great west etc. is you hear every rattle while driving, the truck camper is so quiet. And lastly, when your drive train fails the whole investment is shot. A truck camper can move to a new truck easily. I finally decided on a popup camper because hard side campers are too big and cumbersom. I looked at the Northstar, ATC, FWC, Alaskan etc. and finalized on the FWC Raven because of their construction, the fact they are always upgrading their components and the fact that they are regular guys. My Raven dry weight is only 740 lbs and doesn't stress my truck at all. I'm sure the ATC is equally good since it's basically the same concept, but at the time I dind't see them having the Raven foot print. All the other popups I looked at just seemed cheaper (quality) and a way lot heavier. Good luck on your journey

 

[Brewskier]

this articleKeep in mind FWC makes a hard side model too, I don't think they show it on their website though.

Pic from a recent visit to the factory...


I read about this, actually. They code-named it "the bullet" and talked about it in this article. As of last year, this was still a prototype, since they are still trying to decrease the weight. Are they selling these now?

 

[Brewskier]

I have seen utility companies that have E-350 4x4 diesel vans with a raised roof, that would be an awesome platform for a camper. There are also Quigley 4x4 vans. You might me able to get your Sportsmobile dream for A LOT less money if you keep your eyes open. These vans are also made as ambulances and T.V. vans. Look around, I like allofcraigs.com. Here is something that came up

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/cto/2878771782.html

http://duluth.craigslist.org/cto/2813033810.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/2832617817.html <-- this one is near you, locked and a cool roof rack, maybe you could add a pop top.


All that said, I have an ATC Bobcat / Tacoma and I really like it. The Tacoma is fine for a daily driver, so you don't need two vehicles.


I've seen a few of these kinds of vans. The problem is that I would have to pay a lot of money to convert the roof to a penthouse, and add in all the goodies that I want inside (sink, pump, etc). If I can get a cheap used camper, I'd save a lot of money going this route.

I think 4x4 diesel vans are just too rare, so it's hard to get them at a good price. That's the problem I see with camper vans, in general. Also, I just learned Ford is no longer going to make the E series vans, so there goes the camper van industry, pretty much. Chevy and Dodge stopped making good vans a long time ago. Unless you want to ride around in an ugly Dodge Sprinter or the Ford Transit Connect (which won't work for 4x4 applications), there is no future in vans. Luckily, they are still making good trucks.

 

[SunMan]

this article

I read about this, actually. They code-named it "the bullet" and talked about it in this article. As of last year, this was still a prototype, since they are still trying to decrease the weight. Are they selling these now?


They had one in the show room so I assume they are selling them.

 

[Brewskier]

I too almost pulled the plug on the sportsmobile as well as the GTRV and Pleassure Way Traverse. There were three major items that turned me off. Because of the galley setups I wasn't able to recline the drivers seat to a comfortable angle. The problem with any of the camper vans including roadtrek and Great west etc. is you hear every rattle while driving, the truck camper is so quiet. And lastly, when your drive train fails the whole investment is shot. A truck camper can move to a new truck easily. I finally decided on a popup camper because hard side campers are too big and cumbersom. I looked at the Northstar, ATC, FWC, Alaskan etc. and finalized on the FWC Raven because of their construction, the fact they are always upgrading their components and the fact that they are regular guys. My Raven dry weight is only 740 lbs and doesn't stress my truck at all. I'm sure the ATC is equally good since it's basically the same concept, but at the time I dind't see them having the Raven foot print. All the other popups I looked at just seemed cheaper (quality) and a way lot heavier. Good luck on your journey


Good advice. That's a great point about the camper vans, too. What's great about this is that I can always get another truck down the line that will hopefully work with my existing camper.

I'm still going back and forth between pop up and hard side. They both have their pros and cons. If FWC succeeds in making a hard side at close to 900 pounds, I'd say the extra weight and higher profile might be worth not having to wipe down the canvas each morning and saving a ton of propane fuel for heating.

 

[MarkBC]

might be worth not having to wipe down the canvas each morning and saving a ton of propane fuel for heating.

Just to clarify: You won't have to wipe down the vinyl each morning with a soft-side. Only when it's cold outside and there's lots of hot, humidity-generating activity inside.
I camp in cold conditions a lot, but I rarely need to wipe down the interior...maybe I don't have enough hot, humidity-generating activity inside.

 

[craig333]

Oh, you must be referring to how many dogs you take along. Kind of a toss up there. Adds humidity but they make great foot warmers too. Soon as I move I'll start dog shopping.

The vinyl (its not canvas, hasn't been for eons) is very quiet in all but extreme winds. True it doesn't keep out outside noise.

Might also check this thread on expo.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73912-How-do-soft-sided-popup-truck-campers-handle-weather-conditions