Li-io Battery

[Piddlin]

We went for a short 2 night stay this weekend and came back a day early, due to my 2 100ah AGMs finally giving out. Before leaving, they showed fully charged at 12.8v, with onboard Genius charger, but once the diesel heater came on, voltage dropped to 9 volts and the heater coded out for low voltage. That made for a cold night. To be fair the batteries are 6 years old, but mostly sit being trickle charged while in the garage.

Looking at lithium. Is it worth the change? Best brands for the money? 1 100ah to replace 2 AGMs? Which type of lithium? The Genius charger shows Li-Io charge, but is it the most efficient? No solar. Thanks

 

[pods8]

Yes I think they are worth it if you need new batteries. I think powerurus (built by rowpow, who also has ties with epoch) are a good balance of cost vs quality. They are better built than litime for instance and cost a tad more. Low temp protection, functional Bluetooth interface to the BMS that tells you state of charge, etc.

 

[kmcintyre]

Totally worth it. Build your own; fairly cheap. We have 120ah lifepo4 battery that will last 5+ days (not for the refrigeator cooling though).

 

[IAMPAPU]

We went for a short 2 night stay this weekend and came back a day early, due to my 2 100ah AGMs finally giving out. Before leaving, they showed fully charged at 12.8v, with onboard Genius charger, but once the diesel heater came on, voltage dropped to 9 volts and the heater coded out for low voltage. That made for a cold night. To be fair the batteries are 6 years old, but mostly sit being trickle charged while in the garage.

Looking at lithium. Is it worth the change? Best brands for the money? 1 100ah to replace 2 AGMs? Which type of lithium? The Genius charger shows Li-Io charge, but is it the most efficient? No solar. Thanks

Hello,
I just finished my power supply in my 2018 Ram 2500.
I went with (2) 200 watt fixed mount solar panels and (2) 200 AH lithium ion batteries both of these items from Renogy and the power distribution and BMS from REDARC.
(See pics. The batteries are mounted underneath the box with the fan vents)
I hope this is helpful

 

[rando]

There are very few situations where lead-acid batteries make sense anymore. While the upfront cost of lithium is slightly higher, the cost per usable Ah is actually lower than lead acid, in addition to all the performance advantages. I don't have personal experience with them, but I have heard the Renogy batteries with Bluetooth are a good option with good support and useable warranty. I think many of the less known brands (like powerurus suggested above) are fine batteries - it just takes some digging through reviews to confirm.

One thing to remember is that essentially all the actual battery cells are made in China, regardless of brand or cost.

 

[pods8]

There are very few situations where lead-acid batteries make sense anymore. While the upfront cost of lithium is slightly higher, the cost per usable Ah is actually lower than lead acid, in addition to all the performance advantages. I don't have personal experience with them, but I have heard the Renogy batteries with Bluetooth are a good option with good support and useable warranty. I think many of the less known brands (like powerurus suggested above) are fine batteries - it just takes some digging through reviews to confirm.

One thing to remember is that essentially all the actual battery cells are made in China, regardless of brand or cost.

On the BOLD part, I think all cells are from china, can anyone think of any LiFePO cells that aren't used in the batteries we're using? IE even the US assembled battle born batteries are china components.

But not all are created equal, some of the dirt cheap ones are poorly assembled, make sure someone has done a teardown of any battery you're interested in and check it out. Anything that doesn't have low temp protection AND bluetooth I have no idea why you'd bother with them in this market place for this use case. A few years ago there were larger price gradients between all the features but that has all shrunk, why save $10 on a battery to be blind to what is going on in the BMS for instance.

I use the epoch app with a pair of powerurus in my trailer, it lets be select both and shows what the parallel configuration is doing as well as each battery. The amp in/out so far has been fairly accurate and I haven't had a reason yet to doubt the state of charge values. Initially I did a full draw down & recharge logging it in the app, with an inline meter, and with a victron charger and all was the same within an amp hour.

There are slightly better (and often much more expensive) batteries out there and there are cheaper (and build a less robustly) batteries out there, I just think this is a brand that happens to hit a sweet spot for moderate quality for the price. But the market is constantly in fluctuation, this batteries all cost more a year ago, and even more 2+ years ago.

 

[IAMPAPU]

I am 100% satisfied with REDARC Electronics REDARC : Automotive Electronics, DC Charging & Brake Control I own the TVMS Prime system.
As important as the battery we choose is the BMS we use to monitor it. The REDARC BMS allows me to charge with shore power, vehicle alternator, and/or solar. The monitor will choose whichever is supplying the most power starting with solar first, and continually monitors the batteries to keep them healthy and operating well. I have had my Dometic fridge, Battery Thermostat, and water pump on 24-7 for at least four months and havent dropped below 96%
Based on price and functions is why I chose Renogy 200 ah smart batteries over REDARC although I would say REDARC is hands down the best batteries on the market. I do know their batteries are crafted in the Netherlands, and currently waiting to see if the cells are sourced there also.
Navigate the REDARC site They are an Australian company that has tested their equipment in the harshest environments. They are expensive, but I can tell your from experience that its worth the extra money.

 

[Outnabout]

Happy with my 2 100ah SOKs. I upgraded to a Victron 100/30 MPPT controller and disconnected my Blueseas ACR, disconnecting the truck from the camper so my alternator doesn’t charge the camper batteries. I still have running lights because I only disconnected the ground at the ACR. I don’t use much power, 12v fridge and furnace when cold are biggest draws.

 

[pods8]

Most all the LiFePO batteries we'd be talking about for our uses have their own BMS, the bluetooth is the gateway to communicated with it, not all of they have bluetooth and thus you're blind to what the BMS is doing.

I don't think redarc is calling that a "BMS" are they? That would be confusing if so. That is a combo product of power management/charging/etc. which is external to the battery and its internal BMS. Victron is another well regarded brand and they also have some combo products, stuff like a multiplus (charger/inverter combo) is often used in trailer builds, etc. It all depends what you have a need for and it can be as simple or as complex (and expensive) as you want to make it.

I plan to run separate components for AC charger (victron), DC-DC charger (redarc), and solar MPPT (victron) on mine. All eggs aren't in one basket if something fails.

 

[IAMPAPU]

This is the link to the management system installed in my rig:
TVMS Prime RedVision System

They call it a MANAGER 30 and the power distribution is the RED VISION they are two separate units.

-The MANAGER 30 monitors the batteries health (duel redundancy since the smart batteries also monitor the batteries as you've stated) part of its ability to keep the batteries healthy is allowing them to discharge to a percentage you set based on the batteries low charge warning. Also charges them via solar, vehicle alternator, and shore power. Simply run a wire to one of the vehicles start batteries, and the MANAGER 30 will draw from alternator only when vehicle is running unless solar is providing more juice, then Manager 30 will draw from the panels. I punched a hole in the side of my Ram for the shore power optioin.

- The TVMS power distribution gives you (5) 10 amp connections and (5) 30 amp connections to power whatever needs you may have. Also has dedicated connections for (2) thermostats and (2) water level indicators so you'll always know how much water is in your tanks. All fuses are easy to get to from the front of unit and if you blow a fuse the panel will light the fuse blown to make it easier to replace.

As you were saying, I have my eggs in two baskets REDARC and Renogy.
As long as we are outside enjoying Gods creation its all good.

 

[Piddlin]

Thanks for the replies. I ordered the 100ah powerurus for $200 shipped. That's what I paid for each of my AGM batteries! I also found the powerurus 10a charger on Amazon for $40. I'm going to disconnect my battery separator from under the hood. I basically just used it to keep the truck battery charged, while sitting in the garage and the camper batteries on the trickle charge.

 

[Jon R]

This is the link to the management system installed in my rig:
TVMS Prime RedVision System

They call it a MANAGER 30 and the power distribution is the RED VISION they are two separate units.

-The MANAGER 30 monitors the batteries health (duel redundancy since the smart batteries also monitor the batteries as you've stated) part of its ability to keep the batteries healthy is allowing them to discharge to a percentage you set based on the batteries low charge warning. Also charges them via solar, vehicle alternator, and shore power. Simply run a wire to one of the vehicles start batteries, and the MANAGER 30 will draw from alternator only when vehicle is running unless solar is providing more juice, then Manager 30 will draw from the panels. I punched a hole in the side of my Ram for the shore power optioin.

- The TVMS power distribution gives you (5) 10 amp connections and (5) 30 amp connections to power whatever needs you may have. Also has dedicated connections for (2) thermostats and (2) water level indicators so you'll always know how much water is in your tanks. All fuses are easy to get to from the front of unit and if you blow a fuse the panel will light the fuse blown to make it easier to replace.

As you were saying, I have my eggs in two baskets REDARC and Renogy.
As long as we are outside enjoying Gods creation its all good.

Pods8 was advocating for independence of the devices that enable charging from three different power sources: shore power, truck charging system, and solar. I like that approach as well because I want to minimize the number of possible component failures that could cut a trip short due to inability to charge the batteries.

 

[IAMPAPU]

I understand the thought behind having separate components.
Hopefully I’ll be able to report good news after a few years.

 

[Jon R]

I understand the thought behind having separate components.
Hopefully I’ll be able to report good news after a few years.

I didn’t mean to imply anything negative about the reliability of Redarc components - I’m just commenting on system design architecture.

 

[IAMPAPU]

Totally understandable.