Lithium Upgrade and Interface w/ Iota DLS-30 IQ4

[slosquirrel]

Greeting all. Apologize if this has been discussed at length in other posts, but hoping someone can chime in on my specific setup (paging Vic "Doctor Electric" Harder).

Recently upgraded my 2020 Grandby Front Dinette from two (2) Deka Intimidator Deep Cycle AGM's to one (1) Epoch Essential Series 300ah LifePo4.

• 12V 300Ah Heated & Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery - Epoch Essentials

Did a ton of research and it seemed like a good mix of quality, cost, power, etc. It fit in my battery compartment like a glove and tripled my usable ah's from ~80ah (assuming 50% discharge with AGM) to 300ah!

While I was at it I installed a Victron BMV-712 Smart Shunt / Battery Monitor (which replaced the overland solar monitor in my cabinet), and connected a Victron VE.Direct Smart Dongle to the overland solar 100\15 MPPT controller (just a rebranded Victron).

I knew ahead of time the IOTA DLS-30 IQ4 charger / converter that came factory installed in my camper isn't "ideal" for my new Epoch battery, but based off what I've read on here and other forums I figured it wouldn't hurt. After I purchased my battery I reached out to Epoch with the communication below:

"Good Morning,

I have an Iota DLS-30 IQ4 charger/converter in my camper that isn't programmable. It’s integrated into both my 120 and 12 V systems, and hidden/tucked behind cabinetry, so replacing it would be extremely expensive and time-consuming.. I’d rather not replace it at this time since I will be rarely using it (mostly to help pre-chill the fridge before trips).

I will primarily charge off of roof mounted solar with an MPPT controller that is fully programmable.

Comparing charging parameters comparing Iota to Epoch I found the following:

Bulk Charging:

• Iota: 14.6V (for ~4hrs or high trigger of 14.6v to put it into absorption)
• Epoch: 14.2-14.6V

Absorption:

• Iota: 14.2V (for ~8hrs)
• Epoch: No Info

Float:

• Iota: 13.6V (~7 days or a low trigger of 12.8v to cycle back to bulk and start the process over).
• Epoch: 13.4-13.8v

I understand using my existing Iota DLS-30 IQ4 charger/converter may not be produce the most optimal charge, but will using it occasionally (and briefly) be detrimental to my battery?"

The response I got from Epoch was as follows:

"It is not recommended to use this charger to charge our batteries. If you chose to do so, you will use at your own risk and could lead to a potential voided warranty on the battery. Our battery is a high quality product but as with any product not everything is going to be compatible. This is why we suggested a Lithium compatible charger so that you would have no damage to your battery."

Just looking for feedback from this group. Will I really damage my battery with the Iota? I understand the charge parameters aren't ideal, but it seems like they are close enough and the batteries BMS system should provide adequate protection? I haven't plugged into shore power yet, and don't really plan on using it to "charge" the battery, but would like to use it to pre-chill the fridge before going on trips and maybe using shore power for the 120v outlets inside the camper from time to time (though I can't really think what I'll use them for).

Future plans are to upgrade the solar panel (thinking 200-250w) since the 160w overland solar panel is underperforming, add a Victron Orion XS DC to DC charger, and add an inverter (thinking 1000 - 2000w). At which point I'll ad some bus bars, fuses, and clean up the wiring shown below.

Sorry for the long-winded post, and I appreciate anyone willing to provide some feedback. Attached some pictures for those that are interested.

 

[Jon R]

I have the same Iota charger/supply. I installed a 200ah LiFePO4 battery in my 2021 Grandby front dinette right after taking delivery of the camper. I also installed a Victron MPPT 30 amp solar charger and 30 amp dc to dc charger. I retained the Iota in the camper but have never used it other than to operate it to understand how it functions.

My experience has been that, when the battery is in the normal operating voltage range of the battery, the Iota, when turned on, does not go into bulk mode or absorption mode because the voltage it detects from the LiFePO battery looks like a fully charged lead acid battery. It seems to go into either float or power supply mode (I don’t know which), and supplies 13.4-13.6 volts. This results in very little charging current to the battery, so it will take a week or more to bring your low battery to a partial charge level.

If your battery is fully depleted, the Iota probably would see it as a low battery and would come up in bulk mode supplying 30 amps, transition to absorption mode when it hits 14.6 volts, and then float. That voltage level theoretically won’t hurt your battery, but it’s a higher charging voltage than I would use, especially if you don’t really need all 300 amp hours of storage. I charge mine to 14.2 volts.

I never use my Iota to charge my battery. I primarily use my solar system, and the dc to dc charger if needed. If I am at home and want to charge from AC power I get out my 10 amp NOCO Genius and put it in lithium mode. I monitor it and don’t use the NOCO to top up the battery. I’ve charged from AC maybe three times in 4 years.

 

[craig333]

I'm pretty much like Jon. I suspect they trying to CYA just in case there is an issue. Myself I can't really it damaging the battery from occasional use.

 

[Vic Harder]

+1 to what the others have already said. 14.6 is higher than I use, but not crazy. For your intended use, it will be fine. JonR's real world observations are informative, and mean that unless you get massively discharged, the Iota will never see your LiFePo4 battery as a "discharged" AGM/FLA battery.

Nice setup. I'm jealous of the size/capacity of your new battery!

 

[rubberlegs]

I'm not smart enough to comment on whether it'll hurt your battery. (I kinda doubt it, lithium batteries usually have a good BMS to protect the battery.) I charged our 100 Ah SOK battery from 0 to 100% using our built-in IOTA charger, and it took over 37 hours. It really slows down once the lithium battery is above what the charger thinks is a nearly charged AGM battery.It's pretty dang slow by 10% State of Charge. It slows down tremendously by 2/3 full.

I do use it the night before a trip, but try to charge using solar the couple of days before. So the Iota is just keeping it full while the fridge is running all night. All to save a tiny bit of gas!

Charging from 0% using Iota DLS-30/IQ4 internal 120V charger:        
         
SOC    Voltage  Current Time
0%    12.25    27.21    09:16 AM
0%    12.41    24.84    09:17 AM
11%    13.19    8.74    10:16 AM
31%    13.38    4.86    01:23 PM
41%    13.39    4.58    03:39 PM
61%    13.44    3.46    08:14 PM
         
61%    13.35    4.84    09:26 AM
66%    13.48    2.03    11:25 AM
67%    13.48    2    11:59 AM
68%    13.49    1.9    12:31 PM
70%    13.49    1.84    01:31 PM
72%    13.49    1.81    02:22 PM
76%    13.5    1.78    04:32:00 PM
78%    13.5    1.71    06:10:00 PM
80%    13.5    1.63    07:10:00 PM
82%    13.5    1.63    08:16:00 PM
85%    13.51    1.52    10:12:00 PM
            (next day)
85%    13.48    2.31    09:47:00 AM
87%    13.51    1.44    10:32:00 AM
87%    13.51    1.36    10:59:00 AM
88%    13.52    1.27    11:59:00 AM
90%    13.52    1.22    12:59:00 PM
91%    13.52    1.3    01:50:00 PM
92%    13.53    1.22    02:59:00 PM
94%    13.53    1.22    03:59:00 PM
95%    13.54    1.19    04:59:00 PM
96%    13.54    1.17    05:59:00 PM
97%    13.54    1.15    06:59:00 PM
98%    13.54    1.07    07:59:00 PM
99.00%    13.54    1.06    09:00:00 PM
100.00%    13.55    0.98    10:00:00 PM
100.00%    13.56    0.85    11:48:00 PM

 

[Vic Harder]

That's awesome data! Thanks for posting.

 

[craig333]

For most of us, a partial charge is good enough anyway.

 

[kmcintyre]

I've been running something like that for a while on a 110ah Lifepo4 battery. The IOTA FWC used when I purchased my flatbed, doesn't allow you to add their Lithium "attachment". I've decided to swap out my IOTA with the Victron IP22 (12/30; 3 output). I picked up one for about $120. I'm also replacing my DC-to-DC charger to the Redarc which is considerable more expensive but also supports Lithium. My original FWC had an AGM battery and they used the IOTA and no DC-to-DC charger. I've assumed that my BMS (fully configurable) was protecting my battery and was set to low charging values (80% SOC) but I also don't have a lot of discharge and don't use my refrig on DC.

 

[Jon R]

I'm not smart enough to comment on whether it'll hurt your battery. (I kinda doubt it, lithium batteries usually have a good BMS to protect the battery.) I charged our 100 Ah SOK battery from 0 to 100% using our built-in IOTA charger, and it took over 37 hours. It really slows down once the lithium battery is above what the charger thinks is a nearly charged AGM battery.It's pretty dang slow by 10% State of Charge. It slows down tremendously by 2/3 full.

I do use it the night before a trip, but try to charge using solar the couple of days before. So the Iota is just keeping it full while the fridge is running all night. All to save a tiny bit of gas!

Charging from 0% using Iota DLS-30/IQ4 internal 120V charger:        
         
SOC    Voltage  Current Time
0%    12.25    27.21    09:16 AM
0%    12.41    24.84    09:17 AM
11%    13.19    8.74    10:16 AM
31%    13.38    4.86    01:23 PM
41%    13.39    4.58    03:39 PM
61%    13.44    3.46    08:14 PM
         
61%    13.35    4.84    09:26 AM
66%    13.48    2.03    11:25 AM
67%    13.48    2    11:59 AM
68%    13.49    1.9    12:31 PM
70%    13.49    1.84    01:31 PM
72%    13.49    1.81    02:22 PM
76%    13.5    1.78    04:32:00 PM
78%    13.5    1.71    06:10:00 PM
80%    13.5    1.63    07:10:00 PM
82%    13.5    1.63    08:16:00 PM
85%    13.51    1.52    10:12:00 PM
            (next day)
85%    13.48    2.31    09:47:00 AM
87%    13.51    1.44    10:32:00 AM
87%    13.51    1.36    10:59:00 AM
88%    13.52    1.27    11:59:00 AM
90%    13.52    1.22    12:59:00 PM
91%    13.52    1.3    01:50:00 PM
92%    13.53    1.22    02:59:00 PM
94%    13.53    1.22    03:59:00 PM
95%    13.54    1.19    04:59:00 PM
96%    13.54    1.17    05:59:00 PM
97%    13.54    1.15    06:59:00 PM
98%    13.54    1.07    07:59:00 PM
99.00%    13.54    1.06    09:00:00 PM
100.00%    13.55    0.98    10:00:00 PM
100.00%    13.56    0.85    11:48:00 PM

That data appears to me to indicate that the Iota is operating in power supply mode, not charging mode.

 

[CPT Davenport]

I have a similar set up to yours. I rarely charge off of the Iota, but when I have it gets my battery about 90% charged. You mentioned wanting to pre chill the fridge and such off of 120v. I do this before every trip with no issues. Just don't pull out the little silver knob and everything will run but the battery won't be charging.

 

[slosquirrel]

Jon R - Appreciate your thoughts / experience and putting my mind at ease. Good to know I shouldn't expect to gain much from the Iota unit if my battery is even charged to ~ the voltages will read higher than an AGM and it will automatically default to float.

Vic - Thank you for chiming in. I've read A LOT of your post and always appreciate the feedback you and the rest of the regulars provide. I felt silly starting this thread... but I needed some clarification, and got it!

Rubberlegs - Thanks for posting your data! I keep a 50A panel plugged in when the camper is stored, so the battery is always topped off. But like you I plan to plug it in to pre-chill the 2-way 130l Isotherm Fridge the night before we leave on a trip so it doesn't deplete the battery. But I'm fairly confident the 300ah battery will solve all my battery anxiety I used to suffer with AGM's.

Next step is to swap out the 160W overland solar panel since it's output is abysmal, install a ~1000w - ~2000w inverter (still calculating what my expected power usage will be), and wire in the new(ish) Victron 50A dc to dc charger.

Coming up with a wiring diagram and will post it to get feedback from the group before I start hoarding all the parts / pieces.

Thanks everyone!

 

[slosquirrel]

I have a similar set up to yours. I rarely charge off of the Iota, but when I have it gets my battery about 90% charged. You mentioned wanting to pre chill the fridge and such off of 120v. I do this before every trip with no issues. Just don't pull out the little silver knob and everything will run but the battery won't be charging.

That's good to know. I always thought the silver nob cut's power to EVERYTHING, but didn't realize the 120V circuits are still energized if it's plugged in to shore power.

 

[slosquirrel]

For most of us, a partial charge is good enough anyway.

Agreed. I doubt I'll ever use 300Ah, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[slosquirrel]

I've been running something like that for a while on a 110ah Lifepo4 battery. The IOTA FWC used when I purchased my flatbed, doesn't allow you to add their Lithium "attachment". I've decided to swap out my IOTA with the Victron IP22 (12/30; 3 output). I picked up one for about $120. I'm also replacing my DC-to-DC charger to the Redarc which is considerable more expensive but also supports Lithium. My original FWC had an AGM battery and they used the IOTA and no DC-to-DC charger. I've assumed that my BMS (fully configurable) was protecting my battery and was set to low charging values (80% SOC) but I also don't have a lot of discharge and don't use my refrig on DC.

That sounds like quite the set-up. I plan to add the Victron XS 50A DC to DC, and upgrade my solar panel, and install an inverter.

I'm tempted to pull out the Iota and add something like the Victron Multiplus II (12/3000/120-50) so it can handle distribution of 120v when plugged in, charge my battery, and act as an inverter but the price and complexity make me hesitant. Honestly it seems overkill for my application... But it's still tempting.

 

[Openroad]

I recently completed the AGM to lithium conversion. Went from two 12V AGMs to two lithium 100Ah SOKs, Victron Orion DC-DC 50A, Victron BMV-712 Shunt, Victron MPPT, tons of upgraded wire, breakers and fuses and all is well with tons of juice. What I have not done is install the Victron IP-22 and that’s were it gets really interesting.

We have a 22’ Hawk side dinette and for the life of me, I cannot figure out how FWC wired in the IOTA charger. I pulled most of the bottom panels of the cabinet but looking at the wire bundles, it’s a total mystery. I suspect if I follow through with this project, I would need to pull off the entire front of the cabinet which is not high on my list of fun. This time of year I would much rather be casting flies to that 22" German Brown slurping bugs at the surface.

If anybody has done this, tips would be appreciated. This appears to be the hardest part of the upgrade.

 

[ckent323]

slosquirrel,

Nice setup! My only comment is relative to a future solar panel addition.

I always recommend selecting the largest rigid panel that will fit on the roof of your camper. For most campers that is 350 W - 400 W.

It may give you more power than you need on most days, but on a trip with lots of rain or when the output is reduced from shade or clouds, it will provide some margin so you can keep the batteries recharged over an expended period of time (we are retired and take long trips of weeks or months). Also you will still have plenty of power if over time you decide to add powered devices such as 12v - 115v converter, microwave, electric stove top, electric heater, hair dryer, portable power tool batteries (eg drill, chainsaw), etc

The slightly higher price is worth it. The additional cost is around $50 more than a 150 W or 200 W rigid panel and the weight is about 16 pounds more. A single large panel is cheaper and lighter than any combination of 100+ W panels (100 + 200 or 100 + 150, etc).

Indeed, you may find that a single large panel provides enough power that you do not need power from your truck or shore power.

I hope this is helpful.

Craig

 

[craig333]

Can you just disconnect the Iota? I know mine is very difficult to access. If you have room for the victron I'd just do that.

 

[pawleyk]

I recently completed the AGM to lithium conversion. Went from two 12V AGMs to two lithium 100Ah SOKs, Victron Orion DC-DC 50A, Victron BMV-712 Shunt, Victron MPPT, tons of upgraded wire, breakers and fuses and all is well with tons of juice. What I have not done is install the Victron IP-22 and that’s were it gets really interesting.

We have a 22’ Hawk side dinette and for the life of me, I cannot figure out how FWC wired in the IOTA charger. I pulled most of the bottom panels of the cabinet but looking at the wire bundles, it’s a total mystery. I suspect if I follow through with this project, I would need to pull off the entire front of the cabinet which is not high on my list of fun. This time of year I would much rather be casting flies to that 22" German Brown slurping bugs at the surface.

If anybody has done this, tips would be appreciated. This appears to be the hardest part of the upgrade.

The AC feed for the IOTA comes directly from the breaker labeled "converter" on the Blue sea breaker panel. The DC feeds go to a bus bar (neg) and the to the load side of the main kill switch (pos). There's really no need at all to replace the IOTA with the victron unit unless that is your main source of charging. No need to pull the entire cabinet apart though, in either case.

Your time is WAY better spent fishing, talking about fishing, or planning to go fishing.

 

[Openroad]

The AC feed for the IOTA comes directly from the breaker labeled "converter" on the Blue sea breaker panel. The DC feeds go to a bus bar (neg) and the to the load side of the main kill switch (pos). There's really no need at all to replace the IOTA with the victron unit unless that is your main source of charging. No need to pull the entire cabinet apart though, in either case.

Your time is WAY better spent fishing, talking about fishing, or planning to go fishing.

Thanks for your insight. I will take another closer look and decide on next step. Installing the IP-22 is not a have to. Just thought it would be nice to "complete" the upgrade.

 

[slosquirrel]

slosquirrel,

Nice setup! My only comment is relative to a future solar panel addition.

I always recommend selecting the largest rigid panel that will fit on the roof of your camper. For most campers that is 350 W - 400 W.

It may give you more power than you need on most days, but on a trip with lots of rain or when the output is reduced from shade or clouds, it will provide some margin so you can keep the batteries recharged over an expended period of time (we are retired and take long trips of weeks or months). Also you will still have plenty of power if over time you decide to add powered devices such as 12v - 115v converter, microwave, electric stove top, electric heater, hair dryer, portable power tool batteries (eg drill, chainsaw), etc

The slightly higher price is worth it. The additional cost is around $50 more than a 150 W or 200 W rigid panel and the weight is about 16 pounds more. A single large panel is cheaper and lighter than any combination of 100+ W panels (100 + 200 or 100 + 150, etc).

Indeed, you may find that a single large panel provides enough power that you do not need power from your truck or shore power.

I hope this is helpful.

Craig

Craig,

Very helpful. I'm hoping to not put too much weight up there, but def want to increase my wattage. Was looking at the Bouge RV 200w semi-flexible panel:

• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CP29YQC...COPNOU6VM&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

It's similar dimension to my Overland Solar Panel, I could likely reuse my existing frame with limited mods, and it weighs nothing.

I also might just bite the bullet and find the largest rigid panel I can fit between my roof vents.