Locking Differential Thread

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Not that I'm going to actually do anything about it, but JohnD's post of his perfect truck got me to thinking about differentials (and not the mathematical kind, either! ).

So, I'm wondering, what would be the best set-up for occasional off-roading?

Limited Slip?

Locking Diff?

Front? Rear?

Both? Neither?

C'mon Wanderers! Opine!

 

[chnlisle]

IMHO one needs a locker even less than John D thinks one needs 4WD. I'm sure my bro Kyle and others will disagree but having beeb all over the southwest, 4 corners, D & S Valleys as well as Baja from top to bottom many times I have never needed a locker. The one time it might have helped was coming out of Saline in the snow. But I put on the chains and engaged the front dif and cruised out.

 

[ScottBailey]

Diff-Lock

Needed plenty in sand, but that's not casual usage.

For the casual off/on highway use: open diffs with electronic traction control. Slip is electronically managed via resistance applied (i.e. brake) to the slipping wheel. Behavior is predictable regardless of road surface (i.e. sand and ice).

That said, if I end up using my truck a lot in questionable terrain, I'll add a full time mechanical (Detroit) to the front to supplement my factory rear limited slip. But that's NOT for "occasional off highway"...

SB

 

[EdoHart]

It's not the frequency of offroad travel, but what you get into while offroad.

If by occasional off road, you mean mild terrain, then a limited slip rear and open front should suffice. I once encountered a bunch of Jeeps and Toyotas who couldn't make it past a particularly slick patch with their open differentials at both ends, but I drove past them (with a lot of wheel hop) with a limited slip rear and open front in my Dodge. I like my new automatic locking rear end and would like some kind of manually lockable front instead of my current open differential, but that's more of a wish than a need.

 

[HERR42]

well, it always pays off to have a limited slip ....in the snow.
it helps every time i drive to reno in winter.
it is an obvious improvement.....like carrying a cell phone.
sometimes in the mud it helps too.

i dont like to put on chains.....why bother?

 

[craig333]

I have a detroit in my Jeep and believe me, thats not what most people would want. You really know its there. The truck is open atm and if I had my choice (and the funds) I'd go with a selectable locker.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

... If I had my choice (and the funds) I'd go with a selectable locker.

What model?

 

[the fisherman]

If Cost Is No Object

The Tow Missle is equipped with ARB air lockers front and rear, with DynaTrac hub assemblys. Very capable, very pricey, makes me think this perfect truck you guy's are trying to come up with is going to run around 75 to 80 grand. I built my truck to do what I had to do, the next guy is going to want something totally different. I never want to know exactly how much mula I actually have sunk into that truck, but I love the thing,and it's a Ford. FOUND ON ROAD DEAD

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

I have a detroit in my Jeep and believe me, thats not what most people would want. You really know its there. The truck is open atm and if I had my choice (and the funds) I'd go with a selectable locker.

Ditto... I have the same setup in my Jeep and when you shift gears, it changes lanes.

I think a LSD is a great option for the vehicles we use to haul our campers around. A selectable locker would be nice, but is pretty low on the priority list. It would be a good safety valve for when you inadvertantly get in over your head. The tried and true ARB would be my first choice here.

As someone said before though, it is best to know the limits of your equipment and your abilities and know when it is best to just turn around.

Kyle

 

[craig333]

Yeah, I'd go with the arb if I had the funds. They are pricey though.

Limited slips are nice, very well behaved mostly, but you need to do some research, some you won't be able to tell the difference between having it and being open. A few operate almost as a spool.

 

[Tomas Tierra]

I built my truck to do what I had to do



...........Usal???

 

[ScottBailey]

I have a detroit in my Jeep and believe me, thats not what most people would want. You really know its there. The truck is open atm and if I had my choice (and the funds) I'd go with a selectable locker.

I absolutely agree regarding auto-locker behavior. On road, neutral throttle through every corner is extra work and eats tires. But not off road: auto-lockers just work when you need them. Unless your in the snow, so I'm told. (Not much snow where I live.)

I'm not in love with LSDs. It's what came it came with my truck. As much as I'd like a Detroit in the rear, I'm not certain I want the extra axle stress it will apply.

It seems Ox Lockers might be the best all around compromise. Simple guts, simple engagement. I understand they are as beefy as anything, reliable as heck, and American made to boot.

 

[craig333]

Hopefully they are better now, back when I was looking for a locker for the Jeep the Ox lockers got bad reviews. Turns out with the older model Dana 44 I didnt have much choice in lockers. Been happy with the Detroit in it, but its not a daily driver.

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

From what I understand, some of the earlier issues w/ the OX Locker have been resolved with an improved lever/engagement mechanism. I believe the original design was just a straight cable and the new design utilizes a spring of some sort to aid engagement when the splines are not aligned perfectly and also helps with stretching/movement of the cable while articulating the vehicle.

Kyle

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Road Worthy Reality Check

OK, so here am I wondering how to proceed with my F250.

I do drive on the beach a lot, and there are lots of semi-covered holes from previous stuck vehicles that leave low density 'sand traps'.

I also want to try some 4x4 trails that've been shown in the trip reports here, and elsewhere.

Then there's winter camping...

My truck has the factory L/S rear diff., which is actuated by clutch plates. It is said to be weak, and an open front.

Right now, I'm hip deep in a camper remodel, so that's where the money went for awhile, but I eventually work on the rolling chassis...

 

[ScottBailey]

easy answer

The factory LSD is "good enough". Leave it alone until it's broke. Then fix it.

Look at ARB and OX: up front, one of the two will supplement the rear LSD quite nicely.

I'd eventually like to try the OX up front. It might be simpler--more reliable--than the ARB. But I haven't looked at the guts of one, yet, so I can't say for sure. I have seen diagrams of the ARB: lots of places and ways to fail. But, people like them.

That's my .02

PS- If I were building a trail rig: 2 x Detroit plus a t-case with 2low. I'd never get going fast enough for bad behavior from the lockers.

 

[buzzman]

I have been looking around lately for some sort of LSD, posi, etc. for my old truck, with a GM 12 bolt rear diff, that I could afford. I don't really go off road with this truck but the "one-wheel-wonder" really gets stuck easy even in my yard. Has anyone here ever used something like these products from Powertrax? They apparently make two different units, a Powertrax No-Slip and Powertrax Lock-Right. The first link shows a demo of installing and comparing them in a jeep. The second link is the web page for Richmond Gear/Powertrax

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/powertrax_tj/index.htm

http://www.richmondgear.com/powertrax/noslip.html

They look to be relatively easy to install and not too expensive...$300-400 range.

 

[ScottBailey]

Lock-Rite

Has anyone here ever used something like these products from Powertrax?

Same idea as the Detroit Locker, different scale. I've used Lock-Rites in the past with some success.

I've attached pics of both the Detroit Locker (the real deal, not the EZ locker) and the Lock-Rite. The lock rite doesn't show the springs: they are small. The Detroit does, they are large.

I believe--someone correct me if I'm wrong--the Powertrax unit is designed such that it is wear item. Specifically, the teeth on the "clutches" will wear such that they no longer hold. I don't know how many miles they'll take you before that happens: probably lots.

The Lock-Rite can be installed quickly in C clip axles, I don't know if the Dana 44 uses these. If it doesn't, just skip it and go to the full up Detroit.

Realistically, you can install the Lock-Rite and go back to your spider gears quickly, if you want.

Understand this: standard differential action usually splits the energy applied to any given axle; auto-lockers can and will apply 100% of the energy to a single axle. This means more stress on that single axle!

In a turn, if the outside axle doesn't "unlock" that tire will "drag". This means increased tire wear.

Regardless, the cost is a bit of jerking and banging in turns. It doesn't bother me, but some are sensitive to this.

FYI- The Detroit Locker guys build an EZ locker that is similar to the PowerTrax unit. If you opt for Powertrax, price out the EZ locker, too. Maybe ask too see each of them and compare size of parts, etc.

 

[craig333]

The lock right is a real locker but they are not known for being extremely strong. They are cheap though.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

This has been an informative thread so far; thanks for your wisdom, fellows!


But I don't...
Understand this: standard differential action usually splits the energy applied to any given axle; auto-lockers can and will apply 100% of the energy to a single axle.

Scott, are you saying that a locker will change how a transfer case splits torque to axles? Or are you talking about torque being applied to an axle stub?

Mark